Worf vs Chewbacca

[Tyralak 12,068]

Enigma, the sources you're citing aren't allowed in this scenario. Preothmin's parameters for this contest are G canon only.

[Kor_Dahar_Master 0]

Worf himself isn't that great a fighter. He gets knocked to the ground by a punch from a Ferengi. In the Last Outpost, he's overcome by two Ferengi.

 

 

 

He does tend to get his ass kicked in fights while under the constraints of starfleet protocol, we see him rip up jems and other Klingons during the war when he can actually unleash his full potential without constraints though.

 

 

 

He's also been outmatched by Guinan in marksmanship.

 

 

 

Guinan has been around for several hundred years (REF: times arrow) and points out to worf that he should not feel bad as she has been doing this since long before he was born.

 

 

 

 

 

Chewie lifted an AT-ST pilot with one hand effortlessly and then tossed him.

 

 

 

Given his position and leverage i could do that just as easily, oh and he pushes the dude off.

 

 

 

 

 

Worf has never shown that kind of strength.

 

 

 

Worf showed more str in Let He Who Is Without Sin than chewie did in any of the movies.

[Praeothmin 532]

Your points have been adressed, Enigma, but there are a few things I'd like to add:

 

Worf did improve during TNG and DS9.

 

In DS9, he was the meanest of the mean, the baddest of the bad, and no puny idiots could beat him.

 

The Ferengi, on the other hand, went from being tough little critters, to becoming the laughing stock of ST, where even the weakest person could beat the crap out of them...

 

 

 

And even if the novels were accepted, you then have to explain why he was so waek in the movies and sooo powerful in the books...

 

Higher Canon trumps lower...

 

But even IF I accepted that the novels were indeed equal to the movies in importance, Chewie did not display strength superior to Worf's.

 

Worf's holding a 150 pound man above his shoulders with only one hand for many seconds, with no apparent strain, and throwing him 10 feet back still only using one hand, displays sufficient strength to do everything you described Chewie of doing.

 

And franckly, judging by the shows and movies, Worf is a way better fighter than Chewie...

[Jason 27]

Jason, please don't post in my threads...

 

As member of this site I think right post all post as long stay on topic.

[enigma 521]

As member of this site I think right post all post as long stay on topic.

 

You don't stay on topic. In fact, you don't even stay in this reality.

[enigma 521]

Your points have been adressed, Enigma, but there are a few things I'd like to add:

 

Worf did improve during TNG and DS9.

 

In DS9, he was the meanest of the mean, the baddest of the bad, and no puny idiots could beat him.

 

The Ferengi, on the other hand, went from being tough little critters, to becoming the laughing stock of ST, where even the weakest person could beat the crap out of them...

 

 

 

And even if the novels were accepted, you then have to explain why he was so waek in the movies and sooo powerful in the books...

 

Higher Canon trumps lower...

 

But even IF I accepted that the novels were indeed equal to the movies in importance, Chewie did not display strength superior to Worf's.

 

Worf's holding a 150 pound man above his shoulders with only one hand for many seconds, with no apparent strain, and throwing him 10 feet back still only using one hand, displays sufficient strength to do everything you described Chewie of doing.

 

And franckly, judging by the shows and movies, Worf is a way better fighter than Chewie...

 

 

 

Lifting a Houk overhead and then snapping him like a twig requires more strength than lifting a 150lb man with one arm. Worf never displayed the strength to rip off people's limbs (while I can concede that he may with some difficulty remove an arm of a humanoid, I seriously doubt he could rip off a leg from its socket, which by the way Chewie did.).

 

 

 

You are not helping your case in which Worf was beaten by St's laughingstock. The Ferengi are still the same and my point still stands.

 

 

 

Overall Chewie would win against Worf hands down. He's a veteran warrior that has fought in the Clone War, defended his home planet, engaged in countless guerrilla style fighting, is from a race that is regarded to be the one of if not the strongest in the galaxy and has survived all adversity for over 200 years.

 

 

 

Worf has not come close to being in Chewie's league. Worf's in the Pee Wee league compared to Chewie being the the major leagues.

 

 

 

Now if we had a versus with Chewie against a Gorn then I'd side with the Gorn winning.

 

 

 

Chewie on the other hand was never defeated by a lesser race.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Lesser race? There is no evidence that Wookies posada anything close to the intellect of Klingons.

[enigma 521]

Lesser race? There is no evidence that Wookies posada anything close to the intellect of Klingons.

 

 

 

Lesser as in weaker not as in inferior intellect. You won't see a Wookiee succumb to a Jawa.

 

 

 

Really? Have you even read about the Wookiees? What did Chewie do onboard the Millennium Falcon? Hump the Hyperdrive? Wookiees are a space faring race that did it on their own. They don't shun those who take a non-warrior path like the Klingons.

 

 

 

From Wookieepedia and sourced from the novel "Death Star" regarding Wookiees.

 

 

 

In spite of their bestial appearance, Wookiees were highly intelligent and had mastered advanced technology, including hyperspace travel. Wookiees also possessed exceptional skill in mechanical repair. An old saying was "Give a Wookiee a knife and send him into a forest in the morning, and by evening he would have carved you a table to eat dinner on - and a house to put it in."[1]

 

 

 

Again from Wookieepedia:

 

 

 

The planet also welcomed trade and its city of Thikkiiana became a major exporter of computer technology. However, this made it the target of the agents of the Second Imperium in 23 ABY. A task force under Zekk raided Thikkiiana's computer stores for use by the Second Imperium in its war against the New Republic.

 

 

 

Yeah, I guess all that achievements means they aren't as smart as the Klingons. Riiiiiight.

[GhanjRho 0]

If we're only using filmed canon, then I am forced to say that Worf wins scenarios 1 and 2, while 3 remains a coin toss due to the multiple other factors involved. However, I will say that Worf was in two series, with with his run covering 282 episodes and 4 movies. that means he was a character in just under 220 hours of celluloid. Chewie, on the other hand, was a character in 3 movies, with a glorified cameo in a fourth. So, as for questions as to why he shows more brute physical power in the books than the movies? The simple, out-of-universe justification is that Star Wars didn't have the same mass of screentime needed to make Chewie a badass without interfering with the story. Star Trek, on the other hand, has over 200 additional hours to play with, giving Worf more opportunities to be badass than Chewie, who even in his three most prominent movies, is not the center of the story by any means.

[Khas 12,158]

Enigma, Wookies are NOT a normally spacefaring race. They don't have starships of their own, and only learned about them when the Old Republic first came to Kashyyyk.

[Praeothmin 532]

Jason, I was just joking, as signified by the smiley...

 

Of course you can post in any thread you want...

 

 

 

Enigma, the highest Canon in SW show Chewie as being barely above humans in strength.

 

They had many occasions to show how strong Chewie was in all his brawls (we see Chewie push Stormtroopers in TESB on Bespin, and in RotJ), but they never did.

 

While I love a lot of the EU, and would like nothing more for Chewie than for him to be a super-strong freak, the movies show nothing near this...

 

They don't show his super hand-to-hand skills either, which Worf has in spades.

 

The total amont of hand-to-hand fights Worf has lost compared to the ones he won are probably 1 to 9.

 

That makes the Ferengi that beat him an exceptional Ferengi, and probably one of their best warriors...

 

 

 

Lifting a Houk overhead and then snapping him like a twig requires more strength than lifting a 150lb man with one arm. Worf never displayed the strength to rip off people's limbs (while I can concede that he may with some difficulty remove an arm of a humanoid, I seriously doubt he could rip off a leg from its socket, which by the way Chewie did.).

 

 

 

 

Really?

 

I can lift a 150 pound man over my head, and then bring him down around my shoulders, and with sufficient force break his back.

 

I can't lift a 150 pound man over my shoulder with one hand, hold him there 2-3 seconds without any exertion, and then throw him back 10 feet...

 

I'm pretty sure that's strong enough to rip a man's arm off...

 

 

 

Overall Chewie would win against Worf hands down. He's a veteran warrior that has fought in the Clone War, defended his home planet, engaged in countless guerrilla style fighting, is from a race that is regarded to be the one of if not the strongest in the galaxy and has survived all adversity for over 200 years.

 

 

 

 

Except I never mentioned guerilla fighting, where you ambush your opponent, and use hit and run tactics, I'm talking about being a very good hand-to-hand fighter.

 

You can be an excellent guerilla fighter and not be the best HtH fighter around.

 

But even the guerilla bit, I tend to doubt, seeing as how Chewie was afraid of the sewer monster on the DS in ANH...

 

Facts are, in the movies, Chewie's been shown to be a good shot, not too bad a brawler, and has above human-average strength, and is a coward in some situations...

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right, Worf isn't in Chewie's class, he's so far above it it's not even funny... Oh wait, yes it is...

[enigma 521]

Jason, I was just joking, as signified by the smiley...

 

Of course you can post in any thread you want...

 

 

 

Enigma, the highest Canon in SW show Chewie as being barely above humans in strength.

 

They had many occasions to show how strong Chewie was in all his brawls (we see Chewie push Stormtroopers in TESB on Bespin, and in RotJ), but they never did.

 

While I love a lot of the EU, and would like nothing more for Chewie than for him to be a super-strong freak, the movies show nothing near this...

 

They don't show his super hand-to-hand skills either, which Worf has in spades.

 

The total amont of hand-to-hand fights Worf has lost compared to the ones he won are probably 1 to 9.

 

That makes the Ferengi that beat him an exceptional Ferengi, and probably one of their best warriors...

 

 

 

EU is added to flesh out and expand on the movies and they are canon. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can ignore it. Please let's be honest here. Chewie isn't the main character in the movies. He's a supporting character that got less face time than the rest. Hell they completely ignored him in the end of ANH when they handed out the medals (even though they gave him a medal in a comic. Dunno, it was mentioned somewhere.). He's Han's sidekick and relegated to being comic relief as are C3-PO and R2-D2.

 

 

 

Whereas, Worf has had many hours of face time on television, fleshing out his character revealing what he can and cannot do.

 

 

 

The part of Chewie pawing (not back-handing. More like pawing, slapping or smacking) and killing the Imperial officer happened in ANH where they were brought onboard the DS. When they opened the door to the control room, Chewie paws\slaps\smacks the officer and sends him flying into some barrels, killing him. That is much more than what Worf can do.

 

 

 

The episode The Last Outpost, Worf was overtaken by two Ferengi. They were not exceptional. Neither was the one who managed to knock him down.

 

 

 

 

Lifting a Houk overhead and then snapping him like a twig requires more strength than lifting a 150lb man with one arm. Worf never displayed the strength to rip off people's limbs (while I can concede that he may with some difficulty remove an arm of a humanoid, I seriously doubt he could rip off a leg from its socket, which by the way Chewie did.).

 

 

 

 

Really?

 

I can lift a 150 pound man over my head, and then bring him down around my shoulders, and with sufficient force break his back.

 

I can't lift a 150 pound man over my shoulder with one hand, hold him there 2-3 seconds without any exertion, and then throw him back 10 feet...

 

I'm pretty sure that's strong enough to rip a man's arm off...

 

 

 

Did you even read the link about the Houk? They are massive and are at least the same height if not taller than the average Wookiee and just as strong, yet taking a beating Chewie managed to lift one up (a Houk named Egome Fass) and then snap his spine like a twig. A lot more than 150lbs involved.

 

 

 

You've also ignored the fight involved a Nightsister. I posted the link as to what they are, hell you should know them since they are prominently shown in the recent episodes of the Clone Wars. Dooku's former apprentice is a Nightsister.

 

 

 

Chewie fought one and ripped off her arm before she could react. Let's see Worf do that.... oh wait he didn't. This is a dude that runs up at an army of Confederate pig men and gets immediately knocked down and skewered. OH MIGHTY KLINGON! Oh and that time he runs up to that Borg drone only to be picked up by one hand and tossed backwards. Riker (or his twin) brains him what looks like a lunchbox while Riker (or his twin) was getting up from a sickbay bed. Garak beats him up. Got the shit beaten out of him by a Jem' Hadar. Just search for Worf gets pwned (extended version) in Youtube. In fact, here it is.

 

 

 

 

 

Worf's fighting skills are mediocre at best if he's able to be taken down by two measly Ferengi, a couple of Son'a, knocked out by hit to the head from a lunchbox from Riker who clearly wasn't using his whole strength, etc...

 

 

 

Chewie on the other hand, never lost onscreen and only relented when Han or Leia told him to stand down.

 

 

 

But then again, feel free to pick and choose which point to address and ignore EU completely which you've done so repeatedly.

[Tyralak 12,068]

But then again, feel free to pick and choose which point to address and ignore EU completely which you've done so repeatedly.

 

 

 

Yes, that's exactly what's being done. In the event that you didn't read the rules of the contest the first few times it was pointed out. The parameters are G canon only, yet you keep bringing up EU sources. Those are not admissible in this scenario.

[Praeothmin 532]

Oh man, this is funny...

 

It doesn't matter whether Chewie's a main character or just a sidekick, what matters is what was shown in the movies, and then perhaps "fleshed out" as you say in the novels, which are part of Canon, yes, C-Canon, that is, waaaaaaayyyy below G-Canon, i.e., the movie Canon...

 

As for Chewie's "pawing"?

 

Are you serious?

 

At 3:35, you can see quite clearly it's just a fucking downward paw-hit, and the guy barely went down 3 feet from his original position...

 

 

 

And Worf getting owned?

 

Most of these fights were against people who were possessed and had their strength increased, genetically engineered warriors, energy beings, had cybernetic implants increasing their strength, he was shot...

 

Wow, Worf lost to those guys, he must be weak...

 

Wow, he lost against Lore, this certainly means he is sooo weak...

 

And funny how tha fight with Garak, an ex-Obsidian Order operative, was cut before it's end...

 

Yeah, that video is soooo not edited to make Worf look bad...

 

 

 

And all your C-Canon feats, I match with this:

 

-ANH, you're "pawing" incident (3:35);

 

-TESB, on Bespin, when he pushes Stormtroopers off the platform (2:50);

 

-RotJ, the fight in the forrest, where he throws a Stormtrooper on another one(2:56);

 

 

 

Oh, and:

 

But then again, feel free to pick and choose which point to address and ignore EU completely which you've done so repeatedly.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I may go with the highest Canon over lower, but I don't use an obviously subjectively edited video as proof of what I'm saying...

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm not convinced, you're not convinced, so let's agree to disagree once more, it's what we do best...

[Airlocke 12,014]

Enigma forgot to read something? Really? HAHA!

 

 

 

Anyway, I think Chewy would take a couple of these, and worf would take at least one. I don't feel like getting too into it, though. I thought about it, then was like, "Ah, FUCK IT."

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I keep trying to formulate an argument, but everything comes out wrong.

 

 

 

"Chewbacca has the clear advantage here because of he long reach and awesome cuddles. Worf would be at a disadvantage because he doesn't have cute glasses." And then I'm like, "Wait, did I just accidentally liken her to a klingon and a wookiee?" Then I slap myself. You can see how I would not be interested in this, right?

[Tyralak 12,068]

Enigma forgot to read something? Really? HAHA!

 

 

 

Anyway, I think Chewy would take a couple of these, and worf would take at least one. I don't feel like getting too into it, though. I thought about it, then was like, "Ah, FUCK IT."

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I keep trying to formulate an argument, but everything comes out wrong.

 

 

 

"Chewbacca has the clear advantage here because of he long reach and awesome cuddles. Worf would be at a disadvantage because he doesn't have cute glasses." And then I'm like, "Wait, did I just accidentally liken her to a klingon and a wookiee?" Then I slap myself. You can see how I would not be interested in this, right?

 

[enigma 521]

Hold on. I finally saw the sub heading of only movies.

 

 

 

So by that logic, where in Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis does it show that Worf has greater strength than Chewie? In Insurrection he was restrained by two Son'a. Hardly proof of great strength.

 

 

 

In ANH, Chewie with his paw smack or whatever you called it (I did call it by other names other than pawing but then again you are proficient in ignoring what you choose to ignore), killed that officer instantly and Chewie wasn't putting a lot of effort!

 

 

 

@Tyralak, limiting the debate to 6 hours of SW footage in which most of it does not include Chewie comparing to hundreds of hours of ST eps smacks severely to dishonest debating. Worf got quite a few episodes dedicated to him yet none of the SW movies had one dedicated to Chewie.

 

 

 

It is like comparing great feats of a warrior that fills only a page to one that covers multiple volumes of great feats of another warrior and then debating who did greater accomplishments. Kinda dishonest isn't it?

 

 

 

I guess you guys are desparate for a win that you'll resort to handicapping the SW side. *claps slowly* Bravo!

[Tyralak 12,068]

Enigma, it isn't my scenario, and probably not the way I'd have set it up were it my contest. However, OP sets the parameters of the contest. It's part of the rules that we all agreed upon. You are more than welcome to start your own contest with the parameters that you want.

[Praeothmin 532]

Hold on. I finally saw the sub heading of only movies.

 

 

 

So by that logic, where in Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis does it show that Worf has greater strength than Chewie? In Insurrection he was restrained by two Son'a. Hardly proof of great strength.

 

 

 

Yeah, it's not we've seen Worf beat Vulcans, Romulans before, who are canonicaly much stronger than humans...

 

It's not like the old So'Na, Ruafo, was manhandling Admiral Dougherty like he was a ragdoll, demonstrating strength at least equal to, if not greater then Chewie's onscreen showings, or that worf beat the crap out of two of those guys before being restrained by TWO aliens of at least Chewie's demonstrated strength...

 

 

 

In ANH, Chewie with his paw smack or whatever you called it (I did call it by other names other than pawing but then again you are proficient in ignoring what you choose to ignore), killed that officer instantly and Chewie wasn't putting a lot of effort!

 

 

 

 

Really?

 

We saw he was dead how?

 

When?

 

All we saw was him going down, that's it.

 

And how do you know Chewie wasn't "putting a lot of effort"?

 

 

 

@Tyralak, limiting the debate to 6 hours of SW footage in which most of it does not include Chewie comparing to hundreds of hours of ST eps smacks severely to dishonest debating. Worf got quite a few episodes dedicated to him yet none of the SW movies had one dedicated to Chewie.

 

 

 

Right, because i'ts my fault Chewie started out as a sidekick and that only his popularity as a big walking carpet made people in the EU wank him all over the place...

 

Face it, Chewie was Han's sidekick in the OT, period.

 

Nothing in those movies shown anything else about him.

 

 

 

It is like comparing great feats of a warrior that fills only a page to one that covers multiple volumes of great feats of another warrior and then debating who did greater accomplishments. Kinda dishonest isn't it?

 

 

 

Not when the warrior with few appearances has an army of FanBois ready to wank his feats and ignore his opponent's in order to boost his rep...

 

 

 

I guess you guys are desparate for a win that you'll resort to handicapping the SW side. *claps slowly* Bravo!

 

 

 

 

So desperate, in fact, that I'm willing to use videos showing Chewie's losses, only edited to take out the context and make him look like the greatest loser ever...

 

Oh wait, you did that...

 

 

 

But I'm so desperate, that I'll ignore TESB and RotJ showing us things anybody with slightly above average strength can do, and ignore how fucking strong you have to be to lift a human man by the front of his shirt one-handed...

 

Oh wait, that's you again...

 

 

 

But I am so desperate as to ignore the lower showings in the movies (the higher Canon) and use only the highest showings in the books (the lower Canon), without even trying to average the two out, while at the same time ignoring the highest showings of my opponent, and use fabricated lower showings so that my bestest most favoritest character in SW absolutely wins...

 

Damn, you again...

 

 

 

You know what?

 

Limiting this to the movies was exactly for this reason:

 

So that no Fanbois could ignore the movie showings and fap to the EU, but I should have known this would not be, as FanBois tend to ignore what they don't like, kinda like what you accuse me of doing, except I gave explanations as to why the movie showings aren't impressive, while you gave us... FanBoiyism?

 

 

 

*claps slowly* Bravo!

 

[enigma 521]

ANH's Novelisation states that the dude was killed.