enigma 521 Posted December 23, 2009 I'd start with that they can easily defeat the Cylons and the Colonists from nBSG. Also they'd be barely able to take on all from B5. Barely, but I may be wrong. Who else can Trek beat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted December 24, 2009 You mean other than Wars? Which us Trekkies (other than turncoats) know to be true. I would say you're correct about The Cylons and B5. I would say the Daleks and the Time Lords would wipe the floor with Trek AND Wars in no time flat, but that's another thread entirely. Sticking to the subject at hand; Xenomorphs, Predators, and I'll find more when I'm not so tired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 24, 2009 Ugh. UUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH Constipated? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 25, 2009 No but being constipated would be more entertaining than breathing. I should really stop breathing right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 25, 2009 Seriously what's your problem? I'm a global moderator; that automatically means I'm a fucked loser (at least just me)! You are the problem. Stop fucking with my profile. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 25, 2009 All of the elements that were there are restored. I'm just messing around with the extra bits - you know, the stuff that directly insults me? Besides I gave you forewarning back in that one thread. Sure, you didn't ignore the post but there's no way I'm going to read through 84 fucking pages of SDN shit. You admit to being a dishonest little prick. I don't care that you won't read through it. I proved my point earlier about JMSpock. Then you call me out, threaten me with mod abuse, I reply and then you say that you agreed with me all along and yet still messed with my profile? What kind of a retarded asshole are you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 25, 2009 ...a crack smoking donkey fucker? Damn right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airlocke 12,014 Posted December 25, 2009 I love changing other peoples' posts in my quotes(the rhyme was accidental). It is so much fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 25, 2009 I am a tomato. COO COO KACHOO! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted December 25, 2009 Enigma, I read through as much of that sdn garbage as I could stand and it only proved one thing to me. SDN is full of jackals who gang up on a person who they disagree with and deem to be an intellectual threat. Their game is simple. When they can't defeat a person's argument, the next step is to discredit them personally. Then they no longer have to deal with the person's arguments. Just say 'You're quoting (insert person here)? Your argument Is invalid.' This is the same game played in acedemic circles to blackball people with ideas contrary to the groupthink. I'm really suprised you don't see this. People like Strowbridge and Poe have left or been banned because the jackals turned on them. Take a step back and look at the full picture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
InvaderSkooj 1 Posted December 25, 2009 I'd start with that they can easily defeat the Cylons and the Colonists from nBSG. Also they'd be barely able to take on all from B5. Barely, but I may be wrong. Who else can Trek beat? Short list, so short I aint listing it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted December 25, 2009 I'd start with that they can easily defeat the Cylons and the Colonists from nBSG. Also they'd be barely able to take on all from B5. Barely, but I may be wrong. Who else can Trek beat? If you're talking full war, and not one ship vs one ship, then I agree with your assessment, and I don't agree with Tyralak about the Feds beating the Empire. The Empire has a DS, which means that even if the Feds could win the ship battles, the DS would be there to crush all their hopes in an instant... The Feds could beat the Chigs from "Space: Above and Beyond", the Cylons and colonists from BSG, not just nBSG. The Republic from the Kotor era, and the Trade Federation from TPM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted December 25, 2009 If you're talking full war, and not one ship vs one ship, then I agree with your assessment, and I don't agree with Tyralak about the Feds beating the Empire. The Empire has a DS, which means that even if the Feds could win the ship battles, the DS would be there to crush all their hopes in an instant... The Feds could beat the Chigs from "Space: Above and Beyond", the Cylons and colonists from BSG, not just nBSG. The Republic from the Kotor era, and the Trade Federation from TPM. Leaving out the DS, I would say it's a pretty even fight with the advantage going to Trek. I'm not just including the Feds here. When I debate this, I include all races, since there is often alliances. However, even leaving the DS as a factor, we've seen Trek deal with other superweapons through whatever Duex Ex Machina or Treknobabble solution they decide on. The Empire apparently only has one DS. It can't be everywhere at once. A combined assault from several Trek races, including the Borg could destroy or cripple the DS. We also have Red Matter as part of the canon now. It doesn't appear to fall under the excluded "one time weapon" category, since the context implied it was well known to Federation science. There was nothing in the dialogue or visuals to indicate it was a "Genesis Device" type item. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted December 28, 2009 Leaving out the DS, I would say it's a pretty even fight with the advantage going to Trek. I'm not just including the Feds here. When I debate this, I include all races, since there is often alliances. However, even leaving the DS as a factor, we've seen Trek deal with other superweapons through whatever Duex Ex Machina or Treknobabble solution they decide on. The Empire apparently only has one DS. It can't be everywhere at once. A combined assault from several Trek races, including the Borg could destroy or cripple the DS. We also have Red Matter as part of the canon now. It doesn't appear to fall under the excluded "one time weapon" category, since the context implied it was well known to Federation science. There was nothing in the dialogue or visuals to indicate it was a "Genesis Device" type item. First of all, I very much doubt the Borg would even allie itself with the Federation. The only time they did, it was because they were facing an enemy with weird biology, not strange technology. The Empire, while powerful, is not something the Borg would fear much, because their assimilation capabilities would not be affected here. Second, Red Matter is a one time only thing, used in the alternate Trek, not mainstream Trek, so any war between the two powers would not see the use of Red Matter. Thirdly, and I do think this is the kicker, the Feds do care about their people, so any power starting to blow worlds one by one would, after blowing up only two worlds, already have the Federation's ear for negociations... I mean, the Feds started panicking when just one world was ravaged (Risa), but it could still be "re-built" (they have the Terraforming knowledge to do so). But not if it is exploded/shunted into Hyperspace... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airlocke 12,014 Posted December 28, 2009 Second, Red Matter is a one time only thing, used in the alternate Trek, not mainstream Trek, so any war between the two powers would not see the use of Red Matter. IIRC, Spock was supposed to have come from the Prime timeline. The canon timeline. Everything that happened in the alternate timeline of the movie is non canon, but the Spock nd red matter bits are canon. IIRC... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted December 28, 2009 First of all, I very much doubt the Borg would even allie itself with the Federation. The only time they did, it was because they were facing an enemy with weird biology, not strange technology. The Empire, while powerful, is not something the Borg would fear much, because their assimilation capabilities would not be affected here. Well, I wasn't particularly referring to the Borg. I agree with your assessment that they wouldn't be interested in an alliance because I doubt they'd view the Empire as an actual threat, the way they viewed Species 8472. However, I think the other races might find common ground. Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Founders, etc. Second, Red Matter is a one time only thing, used in the alternate Trek, not mainstream Trek, so any war between the two powers would not see the use of Red Matter. Actually, Red Matter originated in the Prime universe. Also, from the dialogue it's implied that it was a fairly well known substance. Spock didn't attach any special significance to it as it being an experimental substance. Especially since the creation of singularities was well known. If you'll recall, Romulan ships used artificial singularities as a power source as opposed to Antimatter. Thirdly, and I do think this is the kicker, the Feds do care about their people, so any power starting to blow worlds one by one would, after blowing up only two worlds, already have the Federation's ear for negociations... I mean, the Feds started panicking when just one world was ravaged (Risa), but it could still be "re-built" (they have the Terraforming knowledge to do so). But not if it is exploded/shunted into Hyperspace... If we were just talking about the Federation, you might have a point. However, as regards the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians, such an attack would just piss them off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted December 28, 2009 IIRC, Spock was supposed to have come from the Prime timeline. The canon timeline. Everything that happened in the alternate timeline of the movie is non canon, but the Spock nd red matter bits are canon. IIRC... You're part right and part wrong. You're right that Red Matter originated in the Prime universe, however yu're wrng about the Abramsverse not being canon. We now have two sets of canon. Prime and Alternate. They are separate universes that are both equally valid. However, mixing the two isn't reasonable. For example, saying The E-E mixed with (insert Abramsverse tech here) could do thus and so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airlocke 12,014 Posted December 28, 2009 You're part right and part wrong. You're right that Red Matter originated in the Prime universe, however yu're wrng about the Abramsverse not being canon. We now have two sets of canon. Prime and Alternate. They are separate universes that are both equally valid. However, mixing the two isn't reasonable. For example, saying The E-E mixed with (insert Abramsverse tech here) could do thus and so. Isn't having separate canon's dangerous. I know, as a warsie I shouldn't balk at that, but you've seen how much controversy that has caused... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted December 28, 2009 It may very well be. But we don't have a lot of choice. Paramount declared both timelines canon. However, the Wars problem is a bit different. They have multiple levels of canon, and that, as we are all intimately aware, causes issues. The Trek situation involves two equal canons, but in different universes. I really don't see how this is any different than the Mirror Universe we've always had. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted December 28, 2009 Tyralak and Airlocke, you two are correct of course, Red Matter is canon in the prime universe. What I should have said is that I doubt the Federation, who just mothballed all their super weapons and never used them again, even when it would have been useful, would not use such an element to attack. And I was counting on the alliance between Klingons, Romulans and the Feds, but depending on the timeline, this may be difficult to do. And the DS would still be blowing up Worlds left and right, and even the Rommies or Klingons would feel it... And I fail to see how the Founders would view the Empire as a threat, since nothing the Empire does can hurt them... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 28, 2009 Leaving out the DS, I would say it's a pretty even fight with the advantage going to Trek. I'm not just including the Feds here. When I debate this, I include all races, since there is often alliances. However, even leaving the DS as a factor, we've seen Trek deal with other superweapons through whatever Duex Ex Machina or Treknobabble solution they decide on. The Empire apparently only has one DS. It can't be everywhere at once. A combined assault from several Trek races, including the Borg could destroy or cripple the DS. We also have Red Matter as part of the canon now. It doesn't appear to fall under the excluded "one time weapon" category, since the context implied it was well known to Federation science. There was nothing in the dialogue or visuals to indicate it was a "Genesis Device" type item. Except that the Empire has most of two galaxies under it's belt and can out produce all races in the ST galaxy combined. It takes years for a GCS to be built and from what I understand, the Empire can build one every six months. Tack on a shit load of shipyards and voila! Every ST mortal would have their ass rammed by a turbolaser. This is assuming tech parity between universes which I do not believe. Plus the fact that the Empire can build a DS faster than the Feds can build a GCS. Build a few of those and you can guarantee the UFP will have a drastic reduction of member planets. We do not know if the red matter is a one shot deal since we do not see or hear it being used in the prime universe after that one use near Romulus. It may be known but it doesn't mean it can be reproduced. For all we know, all of the red matter was in Spock's ship. It may be known to Fed science but can it be reproduced? I am sure the Genesis Device was known to Fed science but it wasn't reproduced since the death of the Marcus'. Then there's the Doomsday ship. Obviously the Feds have it but were they able to reproduce it? What about the Echo Papa 607 or as I call it the Borg-in-a-Box? Imagine being able to reverse engineer that and have it installed in every starship and starbase! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted December 29, 2009 Except that the Empire has most of two galaxies under it's belt and can out produce all races in the ST galaxy combined. It takes years for a GCS to be built and from what I understand, the Empire can build one every six months. Tack on a shit load of shipyards and voila! Every ST mortal would have their ass rammed by a turbolaser. This is assuming tech parity between universes which I do not believe. Plus the fact that the Empire can build a DS faster than the Feds can build a GCS. Build a few of those and you can guarantee the UFP will have a drastic reduction of member planets. First of all, where's your information coming from, about the "two" galaxies under the Empire's rule? According to all the sources ( mostly EU), the "main" SW Galaxy still has unkown regions, so the Empire at the time of ANH still didn't control the ressources of these regions. Also, a society as widespread, and containing so many highly populated worlds will be a huge drain on ressources. These worlds also have their own ships to build and maintain, populations to feed, houses and buildings to build, etc... And so, the first DS was designed and then built within the span of 20 years or so (AotC to ANH), and the second one approximately 2-5 years (and wasn't completed at the time of RotJ). Where did you get your figures for the construction time of the GCS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 31, 2009 The Dominion is a least twice as stronger as the Star Wars Empire many be more. The UFP to many unknowns to make a real judgment on them. Mar Defense spacecrafts what are they armed is question need know. We had known nothing about Saturn Defense Systems or Jupiter Defense systems. Star Wars Empire taken heart of the UFP may come at cost most ships. Beyond own know fact how powerful a weapon is the Galaxy class main defector dish. I personal think got right thought star destroyer shield like knife goes though butter. THe Empire could again being running out of starships very quickly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
