USS Defiant vs Death star

[Praeothmin 532]

okay looking it up in the memory alpha db you are correct, it could raise it's shields while cloaked. I stand corrected.

 

 

 

In the end however, the primary debate is debunked. You cannot transport thru shields so odds are they couldn't transport thru ray shielding.

 

 

 

Which has been my stand on the matter since the beginning...

[paul 11,988]

Which has been my stand on the matter since the beginning...

 

 

 

I never ever said they could transport thru shields. However it is possible for them to blast a hole in the shielding and plop troops in. In DS9, when they were under attack (I'm certain when they dominion was attacking not sure about the klingons) they were targetting one specific area so they could start beaming in troops. That would then assume that shielding could be weakened to a point that transport was possible. Now would they be able to beam in to other sections? Most likely not but they could establish a beachhead and fuck some shit up!

[Jason 27]

We never saw Pattern enhancer be used while starship shields or in shield place. Then again one might ask another question was there a time we saw them bring pattern enhancer into shield target. However we have see isolinear tag Star Terk (Star Trek: Insurrection) going right thought transport inhibitors and we have seen emergency transport unit so I would say a good bet that Federation Pattern enhancer could do the job as will. Date most likely did known that the shields up.

[paul 11,988]

We never saw Pattern enhancer be used while starship shields or in shield place. Then again one might ask another question was there a time we saw them bring pattern enhancer into shield target. However we have see isolinear tag Star Terk (Star Trek: Insurrection) going right thought transport inhibitors and we have seen emergency transport unit so I would say a good bet that Federation Pattern enhancer could do the job as will. Date most likely did known that the shields up.

 

 

 

I forgot about insurrection hehe. However, that wasn't a shield. The transport inhibitors made it impossible to get a clear transporter lock without assistance. Shields literally stop energy and matter, so it could be surmised that a transporter beam which converts matter to energy couldn't pass thru a shield regardless of any assistance. At no time that I can remember did a emergency transporter unit go thru a shield.

[Praeothmin 532]

I forgot about insurrection hehe. However, that wasn't a shield. The transport inhibitors made it impossible to get a clear transporter lock without assistance. Shields literally stop energy and matter, so it could be surmised that a transporter beam which converts matter to energy couldn't pass thru a shield regardless of any assistance. At no time that I can remember did a emergency transporter unit go thru a shield.

 

 

 

Exactly...

 

So again, no...

 

 

 

I never ever said they could transport thru shields. However it is possible for them to blast a hole in the shielding and plop troops in. In DS9, when they were under attack (I'm certain when they dominion was attacking not sure about the klingons) they were targetting one specific area so they could start beaming in troops. That would then assume that shielding could be weakened to a point that transport was possible. Now would they be able to beam in to other sections? Most likely not but they could establish a beachhead and fuck some shit up!

 

 

 

Sure, but then, we're back to the original position:

 

No, they can't take over, no, they can't destroy it, but yes, depending on the strategy, they can fuck up some serious shit...

[Tyralak 12,068]

The fun in this particular argument, is that we all know the Defiant by itself is seriously outclassed. It's the equivalent of a X-Wing going up against a Borg Cube. However, trying to find ways that the Defiant could cause serious damage is the fun part.

[Jason 27]

Ray shields are design block enemy weapon not solid objects. So Starfleet commando could use a smell pipe and put thought ray shield and then us the Pattern enhancer to beam in some photon torpedoes. Hay you did not need big hole to do that at all.

[enigma 521]

Except you need to survive while doing that. You are talking about this like the Federation has all the time in the universe. Please take your meds. Your mind is slipping. Smell pipe indeed.

[Airlocke 12,014]

Ray shields are design block enemy weapon not solid objects. So Starfleet commando could use a smell pipe and put thought ray shield and then us the Pattern enhancer to beam in some photon torpedoes. Hay you did not need big hole to do that at all.

 

 

 

I'm not sure about this. Weren't Anakin, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and R2-D2 trapped by ray shields aboard the Invisible Hand? This suggests that they CAN block solid objects, though I could be misremembering, or just not considering a crucial variable, somewhere.

[Tyralak 12,068]

I'm not sure about this. Weren't Anakin, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and R2-D2 trapped by ray shields aboard the Invisible Hand? This suggests that they CAN block solid objects, though I could be misremembering, or just not considering a crucial variable, somewhere.

 

 

 

I don't think it was the ray shields. SW ships have both ray and particle shields. These were apparently particle shields.

[Airlocke 12,014]

I don't think it was the ray shields. SW ships have both ray and particle shields. These were apparently particle shields.

 

 

 

60 INT. BRIDGE-TRADE FEDERATION CRUISER

 

 

 

BODYGUARD: General, we found the Jedi. They're in hallway 328.

 

 

 

GENERAL GRIEVOUS: Activate ray shields.

 

 

 

61 INT. HALLWAY-TRADE FEDERATION CRUISER

 

 

 

They run down the hallway. Suddenly, ray shields drop around them, putting them in an electronic box in the middle of the hallway.

 

 

 

ANAKIN: Ray shields!

 

 

 

OBI-WAN takes a deep breath to express his total disappointment.

[Tyralak 12,068]

I stand corrected. In any case, the difference we saw with ray shields is that they were mainly designed for energy weapons not KE weapons. This is why they used torpedoes for the DS run. The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology also clarifies that. I don't have an electronic copy of this book, so I'll have to quote by hand. (Which is a pain in the ass). "Particle shields are standard equipment on all starships. They absorb kinetic energy from physical impacts, protecting a ship during collisions with debris and other ships, and blunt the effects of Proton Torpedoes and concussion missiles. Particle shields provide no protection against energy attacks such as laser and Turbolaser fire."

 

"Ray shields will absorb blasts from laser cannons, Turbolasers and other energy weapons. Since these shields consume tremendous amounts of energy, they are raised only when battle is imminent."

[Airlocke 12,014]

I understand that(btw, you could have just quoted the wookieepedia article, woulda been easier), but this scene does suggest that they also provide some defense aginst kinetic energy and solid objects, as well, though not necessarily a great amount.

[Jason 27]

The "Magnetic Shields by it self is not going to be issues Reble fighters past though Death star Magnetic shield. So I can not see the Magnetic shields got in the way Transpoters once the USS Defient has alreadly pass thought it. I said before Nothing stop A Defient class starship from landed on it over come senser jaming. So I can not see way Transpoters could not be used.

[Airlocke 12,014]

The "Magnetic Shields by it self is not going to be issues Reble fighters past though Death star Magnetic shield. So I can not see the Magnetic shields got in the way Transpoters once the USS Defient has alreadly pass thought it. I said before Nothing stop A Defient class starship from landed on it over come senser jaming. So I can not see way Transpoters could not be used.

 

 

 

Okay, I literally have no fucking idea what you just wrote. NONE. Completely indecipherable.

[Jason 27]

While the ray shield might be able to stop the commandoes from even be able to enter the hole to being with. However if the Defiant class starship land on the Death star surface just side of the trench right were that hole was. I could not see why they could not just beam photon torpedo in right in their.

[Airlocke 12,014]

While the ray shield might be able to stop the commandoes from even be able to enter the hole to being with. However if the Defiant class starship land on the Death star surface just side of the trench right were that hole was. I could not see why they could not just beam photon torpedo in right in their.

 

 

 

H-how, is the Defiant just going to land on the surface? Are the thousands of ties and tl batteries just going to stand down? They just going to say, "You know what, we don't really care. Blow up our ship and kill us all,"? I mean, really? Why don't you try to explain, to me, How EXACTLY, it's going to just land on the surface? Any explanation at all?

[paul 11,988]

H-how, is the Defiant just going to land on the surface? Are the thousands of ties and tl batteries just going to stand down? They just going to, "You know what, we don't really care. Blow up our ship and kill us all,"? I mean, really? Why don't you try to explain, to me, How EXACTLY, it's going to just land on the surface? Any explanation at all?

 

 

 

Even though just the way you put this made me laugh i'll play devils advocate on this part. Lets assume the ties really can't do jack diddly shit anyways to the defiant (not enough to be of any major concern anyways), the TL would defintally be the bitch from hell but still the defiant could take a few of those without going splat, landing ... ya know I really can't come up with that one the defiant cant LAND it has no landing struts! so unless it decides to crash land it'd be screwed.

[Airlocke 12,014]

Even though just the way you put this made me laugh i'll play devils advocate on this part. Lets assume the ties really can't do jack diddly shit anyways to the defiant (not enough to be of any major concern anyways), the TL would defintally be the bitch from hell but still the defiant could take a few of those without going splat, landing ... ya know I really can't come up with that one the defiant cant LAND it has no landing struts! so unless it decides to crash land it'd be screwed.

 

 

 

Ties could potentially be the downfall. They do have Tie Bombers, ya know. They have slightly less maneuverability, but they do carry payloads of Proton torpedoes and concussion missiles. Those could be a bitch. Then consider that the Death Star has literally thousands of Tie Fighters and no other target but the defiant. Are you suggesting that a swarm of, say, one hundred or so would cause no damage. Then figure in the TLs, and it seems very unlikely, especially since the defiant would be a sitting duck for about 15-20 seconds near the surface. All of the ties and Tls could combine to take out the shields, then one or two protons would end it. We need to make this more fair. Give the Defiant some assistance, then we'll talk.

[Praeothmin 532]

Ties have such shitty weapons that no, 100 Ties would not be a threat...

 

But I disagree with everything else Jason has said...

[Airlocke 12,014]

Ties have such shitty weapons that no, 100 Ties would not be a threat...

 

But I disagree with everything else Jason has said...

 

 

 

Fine, let's say 250+. Combined with pounding from the TLs. Would they have any effect?

[Jason 27]

First a Defiant class starship has landing on deck for My link. The Defiant class alot effect senser jaming systoms on aboard . Other wise you have a lot explaining to do about Valiant was able sneak up on that Jem'Hadar battleship to being with. It is very unlikley that the Death star senser even pick them up. As for landed the Defiant class starship that would be the be the eaisly part.

. Beam photon torpodoe reactor will be the hard part.

[Airlocke 12,014]

First a Defiant class starship has landing on deck for My link. The Defiant class alot effect senser jaming systoms on aboard . Other wise you have a lot explaining to do about Valiant was able sneak up on that Jem'Hadar battleship to being with. It is very unlikley that the Death star senser even pick them up. As for landed the Defiant class starship that would be the be the eaisly part.

. Beam photon torpodoe reactor will be the hard part.

 

 

 

I forgot that Defiant's could cloak...could be problematic, but is not insurmountable. We do not know if ST/SW sensor/comm jamming would be effective on the opposing universes' respective equipment because they may use completely different systems. So, it is completely possible that they just would not be able to see the thing, but would be able to track it on their sensors.

[Jason 27]

Defiant class starships not even have to cloak. As we see many times in Star Terk Federation starship were able to make themselves to be unseen by enemy sensors with very little real information about how they work. I could not see the Death Star being much different.

[enigma 521]

Defiant class starships not even have to cloak. As we see many times in Star Terk Federation starship were able to make themselves to be unseen by enemy sensors with very little real information about how they work. I could not see the Death Star being much different.

 

 

 

You think a heavily fortified military mobile weapons platform would be befuddled by a rinky dink ship? Be real.