Star Terk Earth solor system Vrs Death Star

[Khas 12,158]

DS 1 could be beatable, if they manage to fire a torpedo down a small thermal exhaust port, and fire a photon torpedo down it, the DS should go boom. Or they could just send Attack Fighters or Runabouts to do what was done in ANH.

 

 

 

DS 2 is a different matter altogether. If incomplete, they could do what was done in ROTJ. If complete, the only option they have is weaponized red matter, which Ty pointed out they do have in the 25th century. But any time before 2387, the Solar System is screwed.

[enigma 521]

DS 1 could be beatable, if they manage to fire a torpedo down a small thermal exhaust port, and fire a photon torpedo down it, the DS should go boom. Or they could just send Attack Fighters or Runabouts to do what was done in ANH.

 

 

 

DS 2 is a different matter altogether. If incomplete, they could do what was done in ROTJ. If complete, the only option they have is weaponized red matter, which Ty pointed out they do have in the 25th century. But any time before 2387, the Solar System is screwed.

 

 

 

But as I mentioned previously, Starfleet would probably not used such a weapon in the same system with populated planets lest there's a chance to pull Earth or Mars out of orbit or into the black hole.

 

 

 

Before you mention the destruction of Narada in Sol system, that was done in the heat of battle and without Starfleet's approval, I am quite sure if it had gone wrong and in some way damaged Earth if not destroy it, I'm quite sure the least of his problems would be not getting that promotion.

[Khas 12,158]

Unless they're desperate.

[enigma 521]

Unless they're desperate.

 

 

 

Risk losing Earth to a black hole or be destroyed? One is a total loss while the other is a Pyrrhic victory. Not exactly something to go for.

 

 

 

Plus if this is post Spock taking the red matter then Earth is shit out of luck since unless I remember it wrong, they could not make more? But even if they had some available, wasn't the red matter in the hands of the Vulcans and not in the Sol system?

[Jason 27]

I agree once secound death shield working most as storg as once protect it form Endor. On other hand not make that much differnts. Point Earth surface defense and same goes Mars could fire weapons death star shields. Guessing the Death star trave as fast light it take 2 hours 12 minute to get to Earth. Mars surface defense system blow hole right Secound Death reactor longer before reach Mars. Same most likley go Earth defense. This not incould possible reforcements and more time Mars defense spacecaft hit death star wear hurts.

 

http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/uranus_worldbook.html

[enigma 521]

Blah Blah Blah, I Jason haitz me braynz.

 

 

 

Damn right.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Risk losing Earth to a black hole or be destroyed? One is a total loss while the other is a Pyrrhic victory. Not exactly something to go for.

 

 

 

Plus if this is post Spock taking the red matter then Earth is shit out of luck since unless I remember it wrong, they could not make more? But even if they had some available, wasn't the red matter in the hands of the Vulcans and not in the Sol system?

 

 

 

There was no indication that the Red Matter Spock had was all that existed. It simply said that he had some. In fact, the context made it seem as if it was a fairly well known substance. We have no reason to believe that he had the only Red Matter in the universe. Also, as far as having it near Earth, as we saw in the movie, these types of "black holes" seem to be very localized and dissipate rapidly. I'd suggest watching the movie again. Do you have a copy of it?

[Praeothmin 532]

Enigma, since the thread said "Deet Starwz" with no number on it, I figured the first one, since the only thing we know for sure about the second one is that it's ROF was much, much greater then the first one, but we know nothing of it's possible defensive systems or propulsion.

 

 

 

I completely agree, if it is the DS 2 that is attacking Earth, then Earth is fubared unless they want to risk the Red Matter "universe destroying black hole", or simply use the Genesis device on the DS, but aside from a Deux Ex machina Starfleet has bu never uses, Earth is fucked...

 

 

 

But not against the DS 1...

[enigma 521]

The black holes strength depends on the mass of the target as seen in the beginning compared to Vulcan and the Narada. Firing such a weapon on at the DS would have a greater effect than the piddling black hole that engulfed the Narada.

 

 

 

A fairly well known substance it may be but not a fairly common substance to obtain. If it was that easy to get then every overlord wannabe would be flinging red matter everywhere to gain supremacy.

[Praeothmin 532]

Thus why I said:

 

unless they want to risk the Red Matter "universe destroying black hole"

 

Implying they didn't really control the stuff...

 

 

 

Again, if DS 2, only Deus Ex Machinas saves Earth, if DS 1 without fleet, then 20 ships will suffice...

[enigma 521]

Thus why I said:

 

 

 

Implying they didn't really control the stuff...

 

 

 

Again, if DS 2, only Deus Ex Machinas saves Earth, if DS 1 without fleet, then 20 ships will suffice...

 

 

 

Depending if the first DS is gunning for Earth and ignoring the ships (which I still stand that they would not be able to survive the DS's turbolasers and fighter complement) and Mars, then Earth is very much toast.

[Praeothmin 532]

The DS 1 isn't fast enough to ignore the ships, and again the TLs or Tie Fighters don't have the power to be more than nuisances to the ST ships, so they will indeed be capable of flying in to fire at the DS's SL structure to damage it enough to keep it from firing...

[Jason 27]

20 starship armed with Tricobalt devices would be able to stop it. Mars surface defense could turn the NX enterpise vaper. If Mar defense spacecafts carrie same kind warhead as Dreadnought it also up task. If a galaxy class starship or or another class starship unlease same amount power thought it main defector dish could fire thought hole in secound Death star. that great deal of damage maybe even destory secound death star or at least disable it.

[Praeothmin 532]

Jason, please don't try to help me...

[Darth Fanboy 0]

Small Breen force?

 

And where is it stated that the Breen force was so small?

 

 

 

A glance at memory alpha gives this:

 

 

 

Several days later, Chief Miles O'Brien cited the attack as being responsible for Commander Hilliard's odd behavior towards Doctor Julian Bashir. (DS9: "When It Rains...") If the red dots on Weyoun's display indicated Breen ships, at least twenty-nine Breen ships took part in the assault.

 

 

 

29 Ships is not terribly many by ST Standards, and the Death Star is certainly a much more formidable target. Granted I will admit that we do not see the engagement, and that there could have been other encounters going on in and around the area which would expand the size of the battle.

[Darth Fanboy 0]

Looking at that display again, I think I made an error inn observation. To me it seems more likely that those dots are displaying fighters or other smaller craft, not the Breen in orbit engaging Starfleet.

 

 

 

I still maintain though that given the size of the Death Star and the firepower it carries, it would be a far more formidable opponent for Earth's Defenses than the Breen.

[Jason 27]

Praeothmin I am just trying fun debating it not aim help or harm. However you are us good number my ideas. As for arguement so make the Borg do it surly Death star can do. Borg cube do something Death star even secound one could not. For example adapt to enemy weapon systems. For example just one Galaxy class starship or one same or great amount enengy out main defector dish. Death star first or secound depend on it shields to keep working. If crew able have a starship power equel or greater to main defector dish galaxy class starship go thougth shields. It unlikley Death star surival more few minutes at most it get destroy. Same go for Earth surface defense and Mars Verteron array's fire for long amount of time.

[Praeothmin 532]

Looking at that display again, I think I made an error inn observation. To me it seems more likely that those dots are displaying fighters or other smaller craft, not the Breen in orbit engaging Starfleet.

 

 

 

I still maintain though that given the size of the Death Star and the firepower it carries, it would be a far more formidable opponent for Earth's Defenses than the Breen.

 

 

 

20 ships was considered sufficient to destroy the founder planet in TDiC, so 29 ships should be powerful enough to do considerable damage on an undefended planet...

 

 

 

And yes, I do believe the DS would be a more formidable opponent, to the point where the 20 ships could not possibly hope to destroy it, but just by damaging the SL emitter, they have successfully defended Earth...

[enigma 521]

Damage it if they know what it is. That is if the DS used it prior to reaching Earth. If not then all they might think is that it is a huge deflector dish or communications array.

 

 

 

 

 

*BUT* I may see a scenario in which the DS would go in and destroy Earth with ease. They enter the system, proclaim that they come in peace and wish to speak to whoever is in charge. They are led to Earth, the SL charges up and destroys Earth. Fin.

[Praeothmin 532]

Agreed, if we go by a scenario where Earth has no clue what that huge dish does, and is simply worried by the miryad guns, then yes, DS goes "Bzzzztttt" and the Earth goes "BOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"...

 

 

 

But I was going from the "normal" vs scenario where both sides are aware of the other's capabilities...

[Darth Fanboy 0]

20 ships was considered sufficient to destroy the founder planet in TDiC, so 29 ships should be powerful enough to do considerable damage on an undefended planet...

 

 

 

But we aren't sure if the 29 Breen ships were of the same size and strength as the Romulan/Cardie ones. The damage done to San Francisco did not appear to be as great as we would expect from capital ships. Which is why I admitted the Breen force could have been larger than I thought if in fact they were engaging a Federation fleet in orbit while the Breen fighters ran around undisputed.

[Darth Fanboy 0]

And yes, I do believe the DS would be a more formidable opponent, to the point where the 20 ships could not possibly hope to destroy it, but just by damaging the SL emitter, they have successfully defended Earth...

 

 

 

The Death Star has other turbolasers that could be used in a more conventional bombardment, so while if by some miracle they destroyed the superlaser (another debate for another time) they would still have to contend with Turbolasers, Ion Cannons, and of course the TIE Fighters.

[enigma 521]

Agreed, if we go by a scenario where Earth has no clue what that huge dish does, and is simply worried by the miryad guns, then yes, DS goes "Bzzzztttt" and the Earth goes "BOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"...

 

 

 

But I was going from the "normal" vs scenario where both sides are aware of the other's capabilities...

 

 

 

That isn't normal. That is if each side used a cheat code to know what the other has.

 

 

 

Normal would be the scenario I've mentioned. The Feds would not know since the SL would not be charged up until the last few seconds.

 

 

 

Actually it would more likely be Tarkin or Vader demanding that Earth and by extension the Federation capitulates or the planet gets blown up. Feds might scoff but in a span of a few seconds Earth goes bye-bye.

 

 

 

*OR* if this is the DS2 then the Moon gets blown up to get Starfleet's attention and convince them to surrender. I think the DS1 had a limit of firing once per day?

[Darth Fanboy 0]

I think the DS1 had a limit of firing once per day?

 

 

 

Never explicitly stated in the film but mentioned in other sources somewhere. Eseential Guide maybe?

[Darth Fanboy 0]

Actually it would more likely be Tarkin or Vader demanding that Earth and by extension the Federation capitulates or the planet gets blown up. Feds might scoff but in a span of a few seconds Earth goes bye-bye.

 

 

 

JUST LEIK MY FANFIC LOL.