Limitations of Blasters vs. Phasers

[Tyralak 12,068]

As I was reading my favorite SW book to my son last night (The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology) I found an interesting nugget of information, possibly helping us to further quantify the nature of Blasters. It was in the article about sonic weaponry. It mentioned Sonic Rifles were used by underwater troopers because Blasters couldn't function underwater. Phasers have no such limitation. God, I love that book.

[Questor 501]

As I was reading my favorite SW book to my son last night (The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology) I found an interesting nugget of information, possibly helping us to further quantify the nature of Blasters. It was in the article about sonic weaponry. It mentioned Sonic Rifles were used by underwater troopers because Blasters couldn't function underwater. Phasers have no such limitation. God, I love that book.

 

 

 

Just curious, but when were phasers seen to work underwater? (honestly, I'd like to know as I imagine an underwater episode would be cool to watch.)

 

 

 

Now the serious question is to discover WHY blasters don't work under water. Some explanations could help, some could hurt the SW argument.

[Khas 12,158]

There was one VOY episode "Thirty Days", when they took the Delta Flyer underwater to the Monean Water World. The Delta Flyer is seen firing it's phasers to frighten off a humongous electric eel.

 

 

 

Here's the info.

 

 

 

So no, phasers don't have any limitations under water.

[Praeothmin 532]

Well, we know they had to modify the Delta flyer to operate under water.

 

Did they just make it water proof, or did they need to modify the Phasers as well?

[Khas 12,158]

Who knows if they did? As far as I can remember, they only modified the Flyer to work as a sub, so...

[Tyralak 12,068]

Nothing in the episode mentioned phasers being modified, so we can assume they were standard.

[enigma 521]

Maybe but we do not know that. Are there any other instances of phasers fired in water?

 

 

 

Why are you comparing ship mounted phasers to hand blasters? Were there any instances in which hand phasers were fired underwater?

[Praeothmin 532]

I don't remember that episode much except for the fact that they went underwater.

 

That's why I asked if they needed to modify the Phasers...

[Questor 501]

Nothing in the episode mentioned phasers being modified, so we can assume they were standard.

 

 

 

Did they mention modifying the Delta Flyer?

 

 

 

If so, prudence suggests that modifications (if necessary) would be made to defense systems as well.

 

 

 

That aside, why is this highly unusual situation provide the Federation with an advantage?

 

 

 

Furthermore, is this an apples to apples comparison?

[Tyralak 12,068]

Did they mention modifying the Delta Flyer?

 

 

 

If so, prudence suggests that modifications (if necessary) would be made to defense systems as well.

 

 

 

That aside, why is this highly unusual situation provide the Federation with an advantage?

 

 

 

Furthermore, is this an apples to apples comparison?

 

 

 

I'll have to find the episode in question to verify about the Delta Flyer modifications. As for comparing apples to apples, In Insurrection, Data took a hand phaser underwater. The same phaser was used afterward. This indicates two things. One it doesn't appear to damage the equipment by submerging it. Second, there is no reason to carry a phaser underwater unless there was the possibility of using it.

[Questor 501]

I'll have to find the episode in question to verify about the Delta Flyer modifications. As for comparing apples to apples, In Insurrection, Data took a hand phaser underwater. The same phaser was used afterward. This indicates two things. One it doesn't appear to damage the equipment by submerging it. Second, there is no reason to carry a phaser underwater unless there was the possibility of using it.

 

 

 

Good point, I had forgotten that scene.

[Praeothmin 532]

Good point, I had forgotten that scene.

 

 

 

Actually, Data carried the Phaser in order to have it in case he needed it once he reached the cloaking ship.

 

We have no idea if he wanted to, or could use it under water.

 

Remember, they knew the cloaked ship was So'Na, and they didn't get along to well with them...

[Praeothmin 532]

I was reading the Memory Alpha resume of the episode (Vog: Thirty Days), and it showed extreme accuracy on the part of Trek torpedoes:

 

But Tuvok has made a slight adjustment. Instead of targeting the Flyer, he has timed the shot so that he would hit the Flyer's torpedo upon its firing, and not the Flyer itself. He succeeds. The two weapons meet and explode, knocking the Flyer away and disabling it.

 

 

 

Tuvok targetted and hit a Photorp with another Photorp... Not bad, I'd say...

 

 

 

Unfortunately, no mention of what the modifications were on the Flyer to enable underwater operation.

 

One thing I do think though is that the modifications may have been only to resist the higher pressures at the center of the Ocean world, and nothing else.

 

The "native's" ships were able to operate in space and in water, but they couldn't go really deep (600 km or so).

 

No mention that Voyager or the Delta Flyer had to be adjusted to go underwater at "normal" depths...

[Airlocke 12,014]

I was reading the Memory Alpha resume of the episode (Vog: Thirty Days), and it showed extreme accuracy on the part of Trek torpedoes:

 

 

 

 

 

Tuvok targetted and hit a Photorp with another Photorp... Not bad, I'd say...

 

 

 

Unfortunately, no mention of what the modifications were on the Flyer to enable underwater operation.

 

One thing I do think though is that the modifications may have been only to resist the higher pressures at the center of the Ocean world, and nothing else.

 

The "native's" ships were able to operate in space and in water, but they couldn't go really deep (600 km or so).

 

No mention that Voyager or the Delta Flyer had to be adjusted to go underwater at "normal" depths...

 

 

 

*FLIPS PRAEOTHMIN OFF*

[Praeothmin 532]

*FLIPS PRAEOTHMIN OFF*

 

 

 

*Ignores Airlocke's finger, as a nice looking lady wearing a T-Top passes in front of him*

[Mith 0]

Actually, using phasers in water will create a massive shockwave--or so I'm told. So, it'd be really useful if you're firing into water, but if you're in the water...not so much.

[Praeothmin 532]

Actually, using phasers in water will create a massive shockwave--or so I'm told. So, it'd be really useful if you're firing into water, but if you're in the water...not so much.

 

 

 

Who told you that?

 

Where did that person get that information?

[Mith 0]

Who told you that?

 

Where did that person get that information?

 

 

 

I actually believe it was thirty days. It was supposedly the reason why Janeway couldn't stop Tom from using the Delta Flyer. Then again, that was ship-grade phasers, but I would think the principal would be the same. Needless to say, creating a powerful shockwave at point blank range is about as stupid of an idea as you could get.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Actually, using phasers in water will create a massive shockwave--or so I'm told. So, it'd be really useful if you're firing into water, but if you're in the water...not so much.

 

 

 

 

 

That brings up a question. Have we ever seen a phaser fired into water? And would disruptors work the same way?

[Mith 0]

That brings up a question. Have we ever seen a phaser fired into water? And would disruptors work the same way?

 

 

 

JANEWAY: What the hell are they up to.

 

KIM: Looks like they're heading directly beneath the industrial complex.

 

JANEWAY: Can we reach them with phasers?

 

TUVOK: Unadvisable. It would create a hydro-dynamic shock wave.

 

CHAKOTAY: What about an old-fashioned depth charge?

 

TUVOK: It should be possible to modify a photon torpedo.

 

CHAKOTAY: We could programme it to detonate once it's in proximity to the Delta Flyer.

 

JANEWAY: Do it.

 

 

 

However, we do see the Delta Flyer using phasers earlier:

 

 

 

PARIS: Thrusters are offline.

 

SEVEN: Targeting forward phasers.

 

RIGA: No, you can't kill it!

 

SEVEN: I do not intend to. Unfortunately the creature does not seem to be of a similar opinion.

 

PARIS: How's that upload coming?

 

KIM: Another couple of minutes.

 

SEVEN: Firing phasers.

 

PARIS: We only made him madder.

 

SEVEN: The creature is retreating.

 

KIM: We've got a breach!

 

 

 

So either it's a matter of power (which is hard to believe given phasers on ships can be adjusted to stun settings...) or the Delta Flyer's phasers were adjusted for the mission. The later seems more probable.

 

 

 

As for disruptors...I have no idea. Certainly possible though.

[Kor_Dahar_Master 0]

However, we do see the Delta Flyer using phasers earlier:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So either it's a matter of power (which is hard to believe given phasers on ships can be adjusted to stun settings...) or the Delta Flyer's phasers were adjusted for the mission. The later seems more probable.

 

 

 

As for disruptors...I have no idea. Certainly possible though.

 

 

 

It could be that voyager was not only firing from orbit but also needed to fire through a shit tonne of water to reach the flier likely meaning they would need to fire at a significant power level just to reach the flier let alone damage it enough to make it stop and considerably more to destroy it.

 

 

 

While the Delta flier was firing at super close range (as they were getting bashed) on a very low setting just to warn the creature off (although all they did was piss it off).

[enigma 521]

The Voyager crew once again proven to be retarded. Can't use phasers because it could create shock waves? But depth charges don't?

[Praeothmin 532]

The Voyager crew once again proven to be retarded. Can't use phasers because it could create shock waves? But depth charges don't?

 

 

 

Well, the problem probably is that they had no clue what type of shock-waves they would create, or how big, while the deapth charges, being a know technology, can be better controlled...

 

Just guessing though...

[enigma 521]

A photon torp has a greater yield than a phaser beam. Plus I'd imagine a phaser beam slicing through the water like a spear causing very little disturbance other than to the target itself. Using photon torpedoes as a depth charge would cause more disruptions than a phaser beam since the force of the blast is radiated outwards causing shock waves in a 360 degree manner.

 

 

 

They should have stuck to phaser if they were afraid of shock waves.

[Praeothmin 532]

A photon torp has a greater yield than a phaser beam. Plus I'd imagine a phaser beam slicing through the water like a spear causing very little disturbance other than to the target itself. Using photon torpedoes as a depth charge would cause more disruptions than a phaser beam since the force of the blast is radiated outwards causing shock waves in a 360 degree manner.

 

 

 

They should have stuck to phaser if they were afraid of shock waves.

 

 

 

But Phasers would have created shockwaves, so if they do not know how exactly, then better go with wath you know.

 

And from the DS9 battles, Phasers and Torpedoes aren't to different in yields methinks...