UFP plan to defand against the Empire with one year warning attact fighters

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Riiiight.

 

So I guess the Tantive IV was emitting a shitload of jamming signals for the Star Destroyer to miss it like that...

 

And btw, ST also uses jamming, it's been mentioned in so many episodes and in so many different forms, like sensor jamming, comm jamming, etc, etc...

 

And still ST has the better Hit/Miss ratio...

 

Interesting...

Considering that the Tantive IV was refitted with weapons between III & IV, its a reasonable assumption. And as I said before the higher rate of fire and greater number of weapons means a greater number of hits(and misses)over time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, they do, in fact we even see them being used on the MF when they escape from the DS.

 

It's just that they were having a hard time hitting relatively slow, stationary targets a few dozen meters away, with no apparent interference at all...

 

So I guess their targetting sensors suck at least as much as those in ST...

 

Yup just like all those non evasive photon torpedoes

[Jason 27]

Watch this vidoe

 

see how effective Galaxy class starship weapon systoms are at being able to handle fighters.Watch this vidoe 5 minute and six secounds to about 5 minute 40 secounds.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N01yxvtWlQ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Empire depends tie figthter to protect from emeny fighters. Again the UFP have easly time defand themselves from Star War empire if were to us attact fighters very longer numbers.For that make quick work Star Wars Empire

[Praeothmin 532]

While more accurate individually, the greater number of weapons and higher rate of fire the star destroyer generates a greater number of hits(and misses) per unit time compared to a phaser armed ships. And curiously non UFP ships with phasers and other beam weapons miss much more often, I can post a bajillion screencaps of the borg and dominion missing

 

 

 

Proportionately speaking, the Empire's Hit/Miss ratio is still much worse then ST's.

 

There are also bajillions of shots of the Empire missing stationary or slow moving targets...

 

 

 

They also miss much more, like turbo lasers

 

 

 

Except you are comparing guns in turrets, which can swivel and move, to unidirectional weapons counting on the ship's maneuvers to line them up with their target.

 

The better examples would be the Photon torpedo launchers, and even them have equivalent, if not better, Hit/Miss ratios then Turbolasers, and Torpedoes don't even move as fast as Turbolasers...

 

 

 

Considering that the Tantive IV was refitted with weapons between III & IV, its a reasonable assumption.

 

 

 

 

Didn't know it didn't have any in episode III.

 

But how tough is it for gunners using visual as well as electronic means to hit a 150 meter long target barely 2km ahead of your ship, slowly moving away without maneuvering?

 

It would take me two shots to adjust myself, and all following shots would be hits after that...

 

 

 

 

 

Yup just like all those non evasive photon torpedoes

 

 

 

Which still score more hits then the faster Turbolaser bolts fired by the empire...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

My point being ST weapons on a whole arent the aimbot weapons fanboys make them out to be. SW weapons hit enough to do their job

[Tyralak 12,068]

I don't think anyone ever said they're perfect, but they have a FAR higher accuracy rate than SW weapons. In SW, they essentially have the tactic of "Let's throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks" The greater accuracy of Trek ships could be the deciding factor in a battle.

 

 

 

Not to mention I found a fascinating nugget in the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology which seems to indicate an ISD's shields would be more than useless against Phasers or Romulan Disruptors. *sigh* I love that book. We all know that SW weapons are DET. There is however, one mention of an MCR weapon in SW. The handheld Disruptor. I don't have a digital copy of the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, and I'm far to lazy to type it all in. So this is from a very similar Wookiepedia article on the subject:

 

 

 

On a basic level, a disruptor worked by using large quantities of blaster gas (such as Tibanna gas), many times more than a standard blaster. The energy beam fired by a disruptor was generated in almost the same manner as the particle beam fired by a blaster, though the beam used much more blaster gas. A disruptor's internal components were quite different than that of a blaster's, though. The blaster gas used to generate the beam underwent a considerably different transformation that formed the disruptor beam. The resultant blast was short-ranged, less cohesive, and extraordinarily powerful; it differed from a standard blaster in that it created an energy wave consisting of disruptive, nonharmonic energy pulses that excited a target's molecules to the point that it destroyed the bonds that held their constituent atoms together, painfully. A shot from a disruptor rifle could do this in less than a full second, vaporizing a being almost instantly. A disruptor was capable of disintegrating a humanoid target, turning it to a pile of ash, and was quite effective against other solid targets, even capable of damaging starship hulls, though the massive amount of blaster gas used by disruptors made them inefficient and impractical for starship use.

 

 

 

Oh dear. Did the bold part just describe a Romulan disruptor? Yes, I believe it did. Here's a little visual aid to drive the point home:

 

 

 

 

Plus the Trek universe has the added benefit of having perfected them, as they're the primary weapons systems aboard starships. Something that is apparently outside of the engineering prowess of the SW galaxy. The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology adds this little gem: "These small handheld pistols can disintegrate a one meter by one meter durasteel plate up to a half meter thick, or penetrate personal force fields, personal battle armor, and vehicle and starship hull plating-they are virtually unstoppable."

 

 

 

So the one weapon that is powerful enough to pierce their armor, shields and other defenses is limited to small handheld varieties. This is due to a lack of engineering skill on the part of the SW universe. They have to once again resort to scaling up existing technologies to do the same job that Trek races do with a fraction of the power and size. They essentially have to use a huge amount of blaster gas and destableize it, which makes it impractical for starship use.

[Praeothmin 532]

My point being ST weapons on a whole arent the aimbot weapons fanboys make them out to be. SW weapons hit enough to do their job

 

 

 

Ah...

 

Agreed then...

[Jason 27]

Also watch the part from 2 minute and 28 secounds to two 2 minute 34 secounds and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N01yxvtWlQ&feature=player_embedded#.

 

 

 

 

 

It right there these UFP combat fighters.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

disruptors

Romulan disruptors dont use blaster gas and dont leave piles of ash on the ground. And applying energy in the form of heat has been has been known to excite molecules so it is still possibly a DET weapon. Other than having disruptor in the name they really dont sound that much alike. Disruptors are more like an overcharged blaster shotgun, which due to its high energy nature penetrates personal force fields being several times more powerful than a single hand blaster shot

[Jason 27]

Here some evidence that Empire spacecafts weaken against one man fighters watch this vidoe from one minute and 29 secounds to one minute and 44 secounds

 

The fact the Dearth star had call out tie fighters to handle X wings and Y wing sugestion the reason the Empire has tie figther protect Warships.

[Jason 27]

Here another example of Star Wars weakness to attact fighters. Watch Tie fighter unlease hell on Caption Solu spacecaft. 7 minute 26 secounds to 9 minute and 11 secounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY-hnOztiAw&feature=related

[Praeothmin 532]

Romulan disruptors dont use blaster gas and dont leave piles of ash on the ground. And applying energy in the form of heat has been has been known to excite molecules so it is still possibly a DET weapon. Other than having disruptor in the name they really dont sound that much alike. Disruptors are more like an overcharged blaster shotgun, which due to its high energy nature penetrates personal force fields being several times more powerful than a single hand blaster shot

 

 

 

Actually, the description of the SW Disruptor, as seen here:

 

it differed from a standard blaster in that it created an energy wave consisting of disruptive, nonharmonic energy pulses that excited a target's molecules to the point that it destroyed the bonds that held their constituent atoms together, painfully.

 

Makes it quite clear it is different then a standard blaster, and actually acts closer to how a Phaser acts.

 

 

 

See here:

 

A rapid nadion pulse is a burst of subatomic nadion particles that facilitate a release of energy from the emitter crystal in a phaser ([TNG: The Mind's Eye]). Rapid nadions are short-lived subatomic particles possessing special properties related to high-speed interactions within atomic nuclei. Among these properties is the ability to liberate and transfer strong nuclear forces within a particular class of superconducting crystals known as fushigi-no-umi.

 

At low to moderate settings, the nuclear disruption threshold will not be crossed, limiting the phaser discharge to stun and thermal impact resulting from simple electromagnetic (SEM) effects.

 

The additional settings 9 to 16 all involve high proportions of nucleur disruption energy

 

 

 

Both weapons basically attack and destroy the atomic bonds within objects or people.

 

 

 

Since SW Disruptors can ignore SW shields, then one could posit that ST Phasers could also ignore SW shields...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Actually, the description of the SW Disruptor, as seen here:

 

 

 

Makes it quite clear it is different then a standard blaster, and actually acts closer to how a Phaser acts.

And I can use the same sort of logic to say turbolasers will bypass ST shields because borg lasers do

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both weapons basically attack and destroy the atomic bonds within objects or people.

Through entirely different methods, I can destroy the atomic bonds of an steel bar with enough thermal energy. And ST weapons dont leave piles of ash on the ground after they phaserize something

 

 

 

Since SW Disruptors can ignore SW shields, then one could posit that ST Phasers could also ignore SW shields...

 

Penetrate is not the same as ignore, read the quote. APFSDS and HEAT rounds penetrate armor they dont ignore it.

[Tyralak 12,068]

And I can use the same sort of logic to say turbolasers will bypass ST shields because borg lasers do

 

 

 

Except that Turnolasers aren't lasers, remember? We've known that for over a decade. And if you'll recall, Borg lasers only worked after the shields are down and they're attached to the hull. They're cutting tools for opening up a hull, not weapons.

[Praeothmin 532]

And I can use the same sort of logic to say turbolasers will bypass ST shields because borg lasers do

 

 

 

You could, except it has been mentioned so many times, and by Warsies to boot, that I'm surprised you didn't know:

 

Turbolasers are not lasers, so your comparison fails...

 

 

 

 

 

Through entirely different methods, I can destroy the atomic bonds of an steel bar with enough thermal energy. And ST weapons dont leave piles of ash on the ground after they phaserize something

 

 

 

But you see, both disrupt the nuclei bond, not through brute force, but by alternate methods (disruptive, nonharmonic energy pulses for the SW Disruptor, and an unknown method for the Phaser).

 

And in fact, ST Phasers can leave piles of ashes on the floor, just ask the Ceti Alpha V eel that Kirk vaporized with his phaser...

 

 

 

 

 

Penetrate is not the same as ignore, read the quote. APFSDS and HEAT rounds penetrate armor they dont ignore it.

 

 

 

But "ignore" and "bypass" are similar, and that is what the Disruptor Rifle does:

 

A disruptor rifle was a vicious and devastating weapon that disintegrated its target. It tore apart its victim at the molecular level, destroying their body tissues and bypassing most sorts of personal energy shields.

 

 

 

 

Doesn't really matter though, I just said someone could posit it would happen, not that it necessarily would...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Doesn't really matter though, I just said someone could posit it would happen, not that it necessarily would...

Fine then the rest is pretty much semantics

[Praeothmin 532]

Fine then the rest is pretty much semantics

 

 

 

Why yes, yes it is...

 

But semantics, as in:

 

the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text; "a petty argument about semantics"

 

 

Is very important in a versus debate, so important that sometimes people will argue over it for hours saying that, for example, "the asteroid wasn't disintegrated as they said it was, thus the weapon doesn't have the power you say it has".

 

So my argument was built just like any other vs argument...

 

 

 

This also still means that "ignore" and "bypass" are not hindered by the shields, and one can also say that all the word "penetrate" means is that the shields are penetrated, as in:

 

penetration - the ability to make way into or through something; "the greater penetration of the new projectiles will result in greater injuries"

 

It really doesn't matter how the shields are penetrated, just the fact that they are...

 

 

 

But on the other side, it does mention that the rifle bypassed most types of personal shielding, so that means that some shields are not ignored, and we have no information on how they affect the Disruptor.

 

Also, while we have no reason to believe otherwise, do SW personal shields behave in the same way as Starship shields?

 

 

 

So while one could posit that ST Phasers could ignore SW shields, it would not be a sure thing, and this would definitely fall within the "Tooth and Nails" category of arguments...

[Jason 27]

I can not see spare parts longer problem comes building longer number of fighters. When comes to building attact fighters just look all the starship UFP building in this image.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL WHERE'S YOUR IMAGE NOW?

[Jason 27]

Admiral talking lose them and allies being only fourty percent.Of this size

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If wish see evidence watch this vidoe form 9 minute and 2 secounds to 9 minute 14 secounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm3xr-u3AWw&feature=related

[Jason 27]

Here two other project doing right in middle Dominium war the pathfinder space station and Prometheus class starship were design and build. This going some millions UFP people put lives on line fighting blood war with in the Dominium war while two project were going on. So fail see why the UFP any problem building billions of fighters. If they could design and build a protyp starships and protyp space station during middle Dominion war

[Mith 0]

If the UFP had one year warning they could defand themesleves by building billions of fighters. Guess the UFP does not alreadly have them.

 

 

 

The UFP has plenty of fighters. They're mostly only used in large fleet battles.

 

 

 

 

 

Lets look this way the Terran Rebellion able to build UFP fighters form srach watch vidoe from 37 secounds 39 secounds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

By way had other fightr destory when taking Deep space Nine. If they able to do things like this number months. What do think the UFP can do in a year. With resourse and man power way above Terran Rebellion have available.

 

 

 

Well, it took three days right? That's at least 122. Even with the entire Federation working to crank them out, you would probably have hundreds of thousands, maybe even a million.

 

 

 

It'd be a complete and utter waste though.

 

 

 

In normal terms us UFP techology handle fighters far better then Star Wars Empires. Star Destroyer destory can easily over power galaxy class starship.

 

 

 

If a ISD can easily overpower a GCS, then what the fuck would an ST fighter/bomber do exactly? Jack shit. ST bombers aren't designed like the SW variant, which are supposed to a type of heavy offensive. Ie, fighters are rarely considered a threat. To give you an idea, it took an entire squadron to deal moderate damage to the Cardassian portion of the fleet in Operation Return and it was only a tactic used by Sisko to piss them off. Your avergae Cardassian ship is probably about the equal to an old Excelsior class starship. Now compare that to a Galaxy class starship, which could probably take two to one odds--maybe even three to one with a competent commander and full on volleys of firepower.

 

 

 

You'd need multiple squadrons. Probably in the range of like 20 or 30 to one just to have a chance of winning and no doubt that hte GCS could just warp away and fire from longer ranges.

 

 

 

 

 

Other then if maybe the Galaxy class starship to us main defector dish.

 

 

 

Against the Star Destroyer? Why? It'd just kick its ass the old fashioned way. Against a squadron of fighters? Stupid as fuck. It's best against a large, low-mobile target, not multiple small and highly mobile ones.

 

 

 

However because StarDestroyer bad poor aim come smell spacecafts like UFP fighters. The star wars empire could end losing more half of it fleet worth of star destoryers with UFP losing many few thausands fighters.

 

 

 

DOn't get me wrong, their aim is bad and fighters would prove effective against them, more so in the case of Star Trek, but this idea of yours is just fucking retarded.

 

 

 

IF UFP build a billion fighters that debate more over here. I say they can easily show my points.

 

 

 

The idea of a billion fighters is just stupid. Fighters have lower ranges, weaker shields, weaker weapons, lower fuel supplies, and limited range and speed--which is the last thing the UFP needs to give up.

 

 

 

I never seen a star destroyer hit a Y wing

 

 

 

Shadow of Malevolence. We see Anakin's squadron lose nearly half their fighters when he started their run and he was forced to abandon their primary target for a secondary one because the fire was too heavy. Now mind you, the aim was absolutely horrible given the sheer volume that the Malevolence had given out, but that's another story.

 

 

 

none or less an A wing in the movies.

 

 

 

By the time of Episodes IV and VII, the Empire and most people in the movies considered fighters to be about as dangerous as a man with a bag of rocks. Therefore, most of the ISDs were not designed to be capable of fighting fighters because fighters were considered to be a secondary form of offense now; the Empire only used them against lesser targerts or at all because less powerful ships were still vulnerable to them. And even then, their fighters were cheap pieces of shit.

 

 

 

In the EU, when the Empire had learned that fighters could be a threat still, they designed a ship class to counter them. Mind you, it was a piece of crap (ie, half the weapons would stop working in battle), but it would be a major threat to fighters. That's not to mention that ISDs rarely if ever worked alone or even with other ISDs. Most of the time they had frigates and lesser cruisers that were more adapt to fighting smaller, more agile enemies than an ISD.

 

 

 

 

 

Which is first rate cannon Tie fighters are once hit these fighters. Another major problem Star destroyer face electrical warfare techology other a cloaking device. I hate to put to this way but the star destoryer and even tie fighter pilots shot in the dark.

 

 

 

Seriously, why the fuck can't you type well?

 

 

 

THe arguement I have againist spare part arguement you make Questor. Is the is following problems first the Terran Rebel had able build Defiant class starship in at 1 year.

 

 

 

And? Just because America can build a warship in one year doesn't mean that we have hundreds of them now. In times of peace, warship construction is low and a build up is only done in times of war. The UFP had 30,000 when the war with the Dominion began, which if I recall, is like half or a third of the ships they ever built.

 

 

 

 

 

If the spare parts cause Terran rebels any real problems. No way the Terrans rebels would had starship readly for battle in most a year. We talking army does not even have weapons to give all troops. Lack Resourse and man would delay the able to make the parts needed to make that defaint class starship work. If making parts need a Defaint class starship took longer amount of time.They never been build Defaint class starship. With that being said UFP attact fighters a lot simple to build a defaint class starship..

 

 

 

There is a difference between building one ship or fighter quickly and consistantly building them quickly over the period of a year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except their main weapons are slowish torpedoes, and they've been known to miss both large space stations and other ships from close range. At least in SW we know its from the retarded amount of sensor jamming they use

 

 

 

ST torpedoes are pretty fast actually. I have no idea where you got the idea of them being slow. They can cover thousands of km in seconds. See The Wounded. And drop the retard jamming claim, we've seen both sides miss horrible at spitting distances when visual alone would confirm solid hits. See Destroy Malvolence.

 

 

 

 

First the main advance of fighters in Star Trek universe is the amount punch they can deliver in longer numbers. A group of a hundreds attack fighters destroy Galaxy class starship easily. However you lose good number of fighter pilots in doing so.

 

 

 

Or not considering that a galaxy class ship could jump to warp and leave them far behind as it bombards the planet that the fighters were defending. Or sets five torpedoes to maximum yield and dispersal and watches as about a third of their forces illuminates space.

 

 

 

Other wars when UFP going losing good number starships anyway we seen UFP use star fighters in high numbers. We really do not know numbers of fighters the UFP was using any of those battles.

 

 

 

Really? Because in most battles' date=' we see hundreds of Federation ships and maybe a possible hundred or two from fighter squadrons. They really don't have that many. And for a good reason too given that they're probably just there to fire more torpedoes and annoy enemy forces while the starships do the real work.

 

 

 

Star Wars Universe warships main weakness is against one man fighters.

 

 

 

No it isn't. One of their weaknesses is against one-man fighters. However, if that was their main weakness, the constant battle scenario would include ships immediately deploying fighters and bombers to hit the other side. As we've seen thus far in Clone Wars however, they do not employ massive fighter/bomber walls. We do however, see them making heavy uses of them which does imply that they are useful, to which is logical, but they just as often fire the main cannons.

 

 

 

 

 

hat A wing and X wing you were talking about were flying extremely close to that Star Destroyer. The in such close range is not surprises after all they had man gunner. Pearl Harbor ant-aircrafts guns get Japanese fighters down as will. Star Wars universe Star Destroyers need Tie fighters to be able do good job protecting them.

 

 

 

Which world are you from? anti-aircraft weapons in WWII were far from perfect and weren't much more accurate than SW versions. The only difference is that in Star Wars, they have a nasty tendency to fly in tight formations at the enenmy even when they have all their guns firing at them. From my understanding, most fighters would try and shake it up a bit, though I think bombers did keep formation, if only because they had fighters to protect them and distract the enemy.

 

 

 

An Empire Star Destroyer fire power could destroy Galaxy class starship few direct hints. However thousand UFP fighters could make quick work out Star Destroyers.

 

 

 

1) No, an ISD would get its ass kicked.

 

 

 

2) Mass fighters is a stupid idea you idiot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point being ST weapons on a whole arent the aimbot weapons fanboys make them out to be. SW weapons hit enough to do their job

 

 

 

 

ST weapons are really accurate. They hit like 70% of the time or more, which is actually pretty accurate for weapons. Wars does have pretty bad aim, hitting like 20-30% of the time. That's counteracted by the mass number of shots they put out so they still tend to hit their targets more often than not.

[Khas 12,158]

Blah blah blah blah durrrrrrr googa gagoo heehaheeheehee duh doyee shmeck glop.

 

 

 

Try learning English, Jason. Baby-talk is discouraged for intelligent debates. Wait... This isn't one. Well then. Keep it up!