What known about Earth Defense systoms

[Questor 501]

To be far the UFP head quator were most like shields other wise Breen fighters would raze the building to ground no problems lack real damage speaks for it self. Was the grass not still green enigma.

 

 

 

You know, I hate to keep belaboring this point... but there is another explanation.

 

 

 

Also: People have continued to ignore my perfectly logical explanation for the presence of defenses, AND why there would be very little damage at the putative Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco.

[Tyralak 12,068]

What explanation? That the defenses shouldn't exist? I looked back in the thread and that's the only thing you mentioned.

[Questor 501]

What explanation? That the defenses shouldn't exist? I looked back in the thread and that's the only thing you mentioned.

 

 

 

That the defenses are based at Mars, for the same reasons that US SAC bases were not generally put in highly populated areas (The fact that populated areas expanded around many of them isn't the Air Force's fault). You can defend the planet itself with mobile forces far better.

 

 

 

As for a reason why I would not put in a planetary shield, overcoming one requires far more power than a precision strike, killing far more civilians.

 

 

 

I'm not saying fixed defenses don't exist, but that they are not based on Earth. Luna would be another good place to base them, and probably acts as the last line of defense.

 

 

 

I doubt the UFP is going to behave as the Russians do, and use their capitol city as a gigantic ruse, but you do need to take into account the fact that once attackers are in orbit of a planet, the planet is captured. All resistance is a matter of time, especially in a democratic government.

[Jason 27]

The Problem that arguement is cearly states in Deep space nine Home fornt. That there are surface defenses The power outage means that transporters, sensors and every defense installation on the surface is inactive – which means that the Earth is totally defenseless against a Dominion attack.Here were I get it fromMy link

[Questor 501]

The Problem that arguement is cearly states in Deep space nine Home fornt. That there are surface defenses The power outage means that transporters, sensors and every defense installation on the surface is inactive – which means that the Earth is totally defenseless against a Dominion attack.Here were I get it fromMy link

 

 

 

If surface defenses were their only defenses, they were screwed anyway.

 

 

 

Do you not get this? An atmosphere and gravity well as deep as Earth's puts the defensive installations at an inherent disadvantage compared to a mobile - or even orbital - force. I interpret that quote to mean that passive and active GROUND defenses are down.

 

 

 

This also ignores the fact that the pentagon is considered a defense installation, even though - aside small arms - it is defenseless alone.

[Jason 27]

That strongth my thoery even more so that Earth defense are beam base weapons that get about speed of light. It only could fire in far range stop Breen massive inviasion attact on Earth on suprise attact. Also part reason Earth most likley has defense sysoms to being with was because of cloak techology.

[Questor 501]

That strongth my thoery even more so that Earth defense are beam base weapons that get about speed of light.

 

 

 

You do understand that an atmosphere is worse for a beam weapon than gravity is for a projectile weapon, right?

 

 

 

It only could fire in far range stop Breen massive inviasion attact on Earth on suprise attact.

 

 

 

What does this mean?

 

 

 

Also part reason Earth most likley has defense sysoms to being with was because of cloak techology.

 

 

 

 

What is with your obsession with cloaking devices? Its starting to sound sexual.

[Jason 27]

First only way to make sense Earth has ground base defense is if UFP is afraid starships with cloak device try decloak and then attack Earth Surface razes most Earth cities with ground. Moon base defense with major space stations would make a lot more sense defending the Earth.

 

 

 

I will give two reasons why think if it was surface base weapons beam base weapons would most likely be the case for Earth.

 

 

 

First fire heavy beam weapons risk miss that enemy starship and hit Earth instead .Depend on power weapons firing you could do more damage to Earth. Projectity weapons you can just aboard if.

 

Second advance would size and power requirements. Big and more power beam base weapons are and more powerful less harm atmosphere will do weapons systems effectiveness.

 

 

 

As for Breen the fact Earth still had oceans back point Earth defense able destroy the fleet Breen base starship before reach Earth orbit.

[Praeothmin 532]

You know, I hate to keep belaboring this point... but there is another explanation.

 

 

 

Also: People have continued to ignore my perfectly logical explanation for the presence of defenses, AND why there would be very little damage at the putative Starfleet Headquarters in San Francisco.

 

 

 

 

 

I have re-read this thread, and see no explanation for San-Fran's minimal damage.

 

Where was it mentioned?

 

 

 

As for the logic of basing the defenses at Mars, I don't agree.

 

Mars isn't always on the same side of the Sun as Earth, so unless your defenses consist only of Warp Capable vessels, it won't be effective.

 

Basing them on the moon would be better, but the best would be a combination of everything:

 

Perimeter defense crafts (we know they have them) based on Mars and the Moon, orbital defense platforms and theater shields at key locations.

 

Since we know planetary, or theater shields are not, contrary to belief, lost tech (we've seen quite a few in TNG and DS9), it would be logical to have them.

 

since Earth wasn't completely devastated, then this tends to show that these defenses were indeed efficient...

 

Remember that a fleet of Dominion ships were able to completely destroy Risa, so destroying the surface of a planet to make in inhabitable is within ST ship capabilities...

 

Since the breen, who's ships were almost on par with the rest of the ST races involved in the war, did not in fact completely destroy Earth, then the defenses worked...

 

 

 

 

 

We know Earth has defenses, they are mentioned many times, we simply don't know what they are.

 

We know ST ships can lay waste to worlds, it was mentioned many times, and shown a few times.

 

Earth wasn't a wasteland after the attack, while Risa, who suffered a similar attack, was...

 

Conclusion: Earth's defenses worked, even in a limited fashion...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

We know Earth has defenses, they are mentioned many times, we simply don't know what they are.

This is true

 

 

 

We know ST ships can lay waste to worlds, it was mentioned many times, and shown a few times.

This is false, in my opinion, especially if by seen a few times , you means once

 

 

 

Earth wasn't a wasteland after the attack, while Risa, who suffered a similar attack, was...

I find it odd they seem to have forgotten it here

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: Earth's defenses worked, even in a limited fashion...

 

Probably true since we have no idea what those defenses are

[Jason 27]

We seen weapons in Star Terk destory leave planet unlivable more then once. Here one. If wish see the evidence for yourself watch this vidie for one minute and 18 secound to about one minute and 37 secounds.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jpEitGRHw&feature=related

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This only what two quantum torpedoes being able leave unable to support human life. You are sugestion that Breen do not have weapon do simler job to Earth.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

We seen weapons in Star Terk destory leave planet unlivable more then once.

 

This only what two quantum torpedoes being able leave unable to support human life. You are sugestion that Breen do not have weapon do simler job to Earth.

Sorry if that planet was unihabitable after those pathetic explosions, it was either uninhabitable to begin with or quantum torpedoes aren't DET weapons

[Tyralak 12,068]

Sorry if that planet was unihabitable after those pathetic explosions, it was either uninhabitable to begin with or quantum torpedoes aren't DET weapons

 

 

 

They don't appear to be standard issue Quantum Torpedoes. They mentioned "Trilithium resin" which seems to indicate they were a chemical weapon using a torpedo as a delivery method.

[Jason 27]

You write a from chemical weapon Caption Sisko if wish see evidnce watch this from minutes 9 and secounds 38 til end Youtube vidio.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIjRDHh9p4s&feature=related

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are sugestion to me that Breen do not have simler ables.

[Praeothmin 532]

This is false, in my opinion, especially if by seen a few times , you means once

 

 

 

I think what needs to be cleared here is what I mean by "lay waste"...

 

I'm not taking BDZ level of destruction, of course.

 

I'm taking about the kind of destruction that 100 Photorps could do at grond zero.

 

Even if we use 1 Megaton per torpedo, while this doesn't mean the end of life, it will destroy civilization as we know it.

 

And since I believe Photon Torpedoes to be closer to 100-150 Megatons per Torpedo, then imagine what 100 of those would do to the surface of a world at ground zero...

 

 

 

So when I say we "saw" this more then once, I don't mean attacks against worlds, but rather the fact that ST ship's weapons are shown to be powerful enough to do much damage to a world's surface...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find it odd they seem to have forgotten it here

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, probably because it never happened...

 

I don't know why, I was under the impression Risa had been attacked and destroyed...

 

I rechecked, and it was Betazed that was attacked, but they didn't lay waste to it, they occupied it...

 

A bit different to what I was thinking...

 

 

 

 

 

Probably true since we have no idea what those defenses are

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

We cannot dismiss them just because they are never shown in action.

 

It's not like we saw the entire attack, and never got to see any type of defenses.

 

For example, if we had seen the Chintoka attack without any type of automated weapons, and then they had mentioned how tough it was because of the defenses, then we could justifiably say "What defenses, there was nothing".

 

But in this case, we were told there was an attack, we were told Earth has defenses, and when we see the results, no lasting damage.

 

The defenses worked...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

They don't appear to be standard issue Quantum Torpedoes. They mentioned "Trilithium resin" which seems to indicate they were a chemical weapon using a torpedo as a delivery method.

That would explain the underwhelming explosion, and green gas

[Jason 27]

Also USS enteprise had the able destory all major cities with push red button. Say Breen not have that able almost sound joke. What ever you might say about the UFP the Breen war like much more war like the UFP ever was. Weapons anything but weak.Beside most what now from Star Terk and star wars is from talk main chartors.

[Questor 501]

Also USS enteprise had the able destory all major cities with push red button. Say Breen not have that able almost sound joke. What ever you might say about the UFP the Breen war like much more war like the UFP ever was. Weapons anything but weak.Beside most what now from Star Terk and star wars is from talk main chartors.

 

 

 

Can someone translate this into english, or at least something close?

[Jason 27]

To make simple no reason to think Breen destory every major city on earth with in about hour.

[Questor 501]

To make simple no reason to think Breen destory every major city on earth with in about hour.

 

 

 

Since no one is arguing that, what is your point?

[Jason 27]

If the Breen going to us a fleet starships they could level major village to ground as will cities. Beyound fact making Earth air unbreathable.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

To make simple no reason to think Breen destory every major city on earth with in about hour.

The USN can do it in 15 minutes, with more powerful weapons

 

[Questor 501]

The USN can do it in 15 minutes, with more powerful weapons

 

 

 

 

Shall we bring up what SAC could have become?

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Shall we bring up what SAC could have become?

What TBO SAC? I just said USN because minutemen take 30minutes to hit a target and W88s are rated at 475Kt. Now if they still had some armed Titan IIs.....

[Questor 501]

What TBO SAC?

 

 

 

I just said USN because minutemen take 30minutes to hit a target and W88s are rated at 475Kt. Now if they still had some armed Titan IIs.....

 

 

 

 

Those are SAC missiles.

 

This is what the navy (USN and RN, I believe) uses.