If instead of Death star plans on a Nova Class starship how would Vader aim to got back plans.

[Praeothmin 532]

Where would they beam to? Outer space? The ISD? That isn't victory. That is beating Vader to the punch.. You don't think Vader would know something was up from the Force that the Nova crew was planning to destroy the ship? Besides that, once the ship is disabled from the ion cannons, the self destruct would not work as the computers would have been shut down.

 

 

 

 

 

I really don't get what you guys are arguing now.

 

Why should we assume Vader would use a different approach then what was seen in ANH?

 

They didn't use Ion Cannons in a new hope, so why would they use them now?

 

 

 

Just take down the shields and zap them constantly with the ion cannons.

 

 

 

Exactly like when attacking SW vessels, so I don't see why they would use different strategies here...

[enigma 521]

I've looked up the Nova class in memory alpha and from what I read, we've over-estimated the Nova ship's chances. How the hell does a science ship of a crew of eighty have a chance against a warship that is the ISD? Their shields would be pathetic compared to other ship classes like the Sovereign, Galaxy, War Galaxy, Defiant, etc...

 

 

 

The Nova goes down faster than a prom dress at midnight. They have no chance and Vader will have the plans.

[Jason 27]

/r/ing pics also sauce/moar/inb4 sage

 

You are forgetting two things about what happen. Nova class sensors most likely better then most starship in UFP and the Empire. Goal would be to hangar bay and got these plans back. If the Nova class starship blow up in that star destroyer hanger bay while Death Vader in it by by Vader. Maybe even by by star destroyer because smell blast made. As for the force it self can not be used read minds or senses someone going gets sense feeling other people around you but that it.

[Praeothmin 532]

I've looked up the Nova class in memory alpha and from what I read, we've over-estimated the Nova ship's chances. How the hell does a science ship of a crew of eighty have a chance against a warship that is the ISD? Their shields would be pathetic compared to other ship classes like the Sovereign, Galaxy, War Galaxy, Defiant, etc...

 

 

 

The Nova goes down faster than a prom dress at midnight. They have no chance and Vader will have the plans.

 

 

 

 

 

Apart from Jason, nobody here gave a single chance of the Nova escaping or even damaging the ISD.

 

We all agree (except Jason, of course) that the plans would still be in Vader's hand almost as quickly if they were on a Nova ship then when they were on the Tantive IV...

 

But no one in their right mind gives the Nova even a fighting chance against an ISD...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Depends on the power...

400GW has been known to work

[Questor 501]

Apart from Jason, nobody here gave a single chance of the Nova escaping or even damaging the ISD.

 

We all agree (except Jason, of course) that the plans would still be in Vader's hand almost as quickly if they were on a Nova ship then when they were on the Tantive IV...

 

But no one in their right mind gives the Nova even a fighting chance against an ISD...

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I pointed out that RECOVERING the plans might well be harder, simply due to Federation ships tendency to explode when you look at the cross-eyed.

[Praeothmin 532]

Actually, I pointed out that RECOVERING the plans might well be harder, simply due to Federation ships tendency to explode when you look at the cross-eyed.

 

 

 

Perhaps, perhaps not, you see, we've never seen a Nova suffer from the same deficiencies of the early GCS.

 

In fact, by the time the Nova came to be, the GCS had pretty much solved their 'Splody-Core issues.

 

No GCS in DS9 seemed to suffer any particular Warp Core issues, in fact they seemed to be the preferred "heavy" attack wing in "Sacrifice of Angels"...

 

 

 

400GW has been known to work

 

 

 

Once, and never again...

[Jason 27]

They could Still firing a phaser rife at warp core could not be that hard to do. Beside a ISD does not have not good aim to being with and a Nova class starship has sensor trick system. Nova class starship has another weapon warp drives. While yes hyper drive is faster it does it own weakness. When in hyperspace you can not interaction in normal space. Being able chatch the Nova class starship might question someone should ask. Warp speed is going times the speed light.

[Tyralak 12,068]

That is an interesting point, Jason. It's well known that Hyperspace travel requires traveling on pre-determined Hyperspace lanes. Whereas Warp travel doesn't. Think of Hyperspace as freeway travel and Warp as All-Terrain. Freeway travel is faster by far, but you get off the road and onto the grass, you're going to get stuck or worse. It's been established in the EU that it's extremely dangerous to scout new Hyperspace routes.

[Questor 501]

That is an interesting point, Jason. It's well known that Hyperspace travel requires traveling on pre-determined Hyperspace lanes. Whereas Warp travel doesn't. Think of Hyperspace as freeway travel and Warp as All-Terrain. Freeway travel is faster by far, but you get off the road and onto the grass, you're going to get stuck or worse. It's been established in the EU that it's extremely dangerous to scout new Hyperspace routes.

 

 

 

Uhh Tyr? I'd like a cite on that. My impression was that the Hyperspace lines were faster, and could be travelled with a lesser (and cheaper) navicomp.

 

 

 

Things like interdictors or calculations to make a jump make very little sense without that.

 

 

 

I wouldn't doubt there are well travelled routes, but just because a lot of traffic took the triangle route in early American history did not mean it was the only one. Its the same with modern air routes.

 

 

 

ETA: my knowledge of the EU is admittedly spotty. I haven't touched it since the middle of NJO. And I never read the comics, except for the occasional TPB that my library would get.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Wookieepedia Article: Hyperspace Lanes

 

 

 

"Hyperlanes were routes through space in which a spaceship could safely travel without colliding with a body in space, or some other phenomena such as a black hole.[1] There were about eight major routes in the galaxy, with hundreds of secondary routes and thousands of minor ones. Scouting new hyperspace routes was an incredibly dangerous task for an explorer.

 

 

 

In many parts of the galaxy hyperlanes also involved periodic re-entry into realspace. This was so as to manually maneuver the ship towards the next hyper-point. It was in these spots that pirate raids were common. The Galactic Empire and other governments often sought to lessen this threat by constructing deep-space platforms at hyper-points. Mine fields and probe droids[2] were also deployed."

 

 

 

IMHO, this is a serious weakness for the Empire. Feds, Romulans, Klingons, etc could amass fleets near hyperspace exit points and ambush arriving ISDs.

[Questor 501]

Wookieepedia Article: Hyperspace Lanes

 

 

 

"Hyperlanes were routes through space in which a spaceship could safely travel without colliding with a body in space, or some other phenomena such as a black hole.[1] There were about eight major routes in the galaxy, with hundreds of secondary routes and thousands of minor ones. Scouting new hyperspace routes was an incredibly dangerous task for an explorer.

 

 

 

In many parts of the galaxy hyperlanes also involved periodic re-entry into realspace. This was so as to manually maneuver the ship towards the next hyper-point. It was in these spots that pirate raids were common. The Galactic Empire and other governments often sought to lessen this threat by constructing deep-space platforms at hyper-points. Mine fields and probe droids[2] were also deployed."

 

 

 

IMHO, this is a serious weakness for the Empire. Feds, Romulans, Klingons, etc could amass fleets near hyperspace exit points and ambush arriving ISDs.

 

 

 

Right, and that fits with what I was saying, too. The normal ships take hyper lanes. Military/smuggling ships would take any route they can calculate.

 

 

 

Otherwise the existence of navicomputers makes no sense. Not to mention a pretty iconic scene in ANH.

 

 

 

"It ain't like dusting crops, boy."

[Tyralak 12,068]

Maybe I read it wrong, however I remember reading somewhere else a more detailed explaination of it. That the Hyperspace routes had been calculated millenniums ago by the race that you saw in the KOTOR games. Creating news paths was extremely dangerous, and the navcomputers were for navigating variations in those existing routes, not for creating new ones.

[Questor 501]

Maybe I read it wrong, however I remember reading somewhere else a more detailed explaination of it. That the Hyperspace routes had been calculated millenniums ago by the race that you saw in the KOTOR games. Creating news paths was extremely dangerous, and the navcomputers were for navigating variations in those existing routes, not for creating new ones.

 

 

 

I don't know, like I said, I don't know much about the EU.

 

 

 

When I look at things I don't look at the technology anymore, as it seems to leave to many holes, but I try and look at what the implication of the plot are on technology, kind of like what I did in the Yesterday's Enterprise topic.

 

 

 

When you look at what the implications of "Highway only" hyperspace, you can create a series of predictions based on what that would do strategically and story wise. The first of these is that traffic would have to pass through choke points, which would be useful for defenders. One of the implications of the existence of choke points is that you can make something more secure by putting it behind those choke points. Another implication is that it would be much easier to hide if you have the resources to try and scout hyperspace lines. Imagine how much differently things might have gone if the Empire couldn't find Hoth because they did not even know how to get to it.

 

 

 

The implications of no hyperspace lines are more attractive from a story standpoint, but they fail to explain the fact that the hyperspace lines are mentioned throughout canon.

 

 

 

As I've described previously, a mixed system would account for all of the evidence that I know of, and the evidence you cited. If you make navicomputers a more recent development than the hyperdrive, you can even account for the description that you cited, that the original hyperspace lines were calculated by the ancient race, and expanding that knowledge was a dangerous occupation.

 

 

 

So that's how I come to the conclusion that hyperspace lines might be something used by the "commercial carriers" of the Star Wars universe. Remember, according to the most fundamental parts of the canon polices we've always used on ASVS, the films take first priority. So all evidence from the films must be accounted for. We have to account for the navigation scene in ANH, for the trip from no-name system A (Hoth) to no-name system B (Dagobah), the parsecs line in ANH, and the ability of the rebel fleet in ROtJ to avoid interception.

 

 

 

As an aside, would routes through gravity even be constant on the timescales we are talking about?

[Praeothmin 532]

I don't know, like I said, I don't know much about the EU.

 

 

 

When I look at things I don't look at the technology anymore, as it seems to leave to many holes, but I try and look at what the implication of the plot are on technology, kind of like what I did in the Yesterday's Enterprise topic.

 

 

 

When you look at what the implications of "Highway only" hyperspace, you can create a series of predictions based on what that would do strategically and story wise. The first of these is that traffic would have to pass through choke points, which would be useful for defenders. One of the implications of the existence of choke points is that you can make something more secure by putting it behind those choke points. Another implication is that it would be much easier to hide if you have the resources to try and scout hyperspace lines. Imagine how much differently things might have gone if the Empire couldn't find Hoth because they did not even know how to get to it.

 

 

 

The implications of no hyperspace lines are more attractive from a story standpoint, but they fail to explain the fact that the hyperspace lines are mentioned throughout canon.

 

 

 

As I've described previously, a mixed system would account for all of the evidence that I know of, and the evidence you cited. If you make navicomputers a more recent development than the hyperdrive, you can even account for the description that you cited, that the original hyperspace lines were calculated by the ancient race, and expanding that knowledge was a dangerous occupation.

 

 

 

So that's how I come to the conclusion that hyperspace lines might be something used by the "commercial carriers" of the Star Wars universe. Remember, according to the most fundamental parts of the canon polices we've always used on ASVS, the films take first priority. So all evidence from the films must be accounted for. We have to account for the navigation scene in ANH, for the trip from no-name system A (Hoth) to no-name system B (Dagobah), the parsecs line in ANH, and the ability of the rebel fleet in ROtJ to avoid interception.

 

 

 

As an aside, would routes through gravity even be constant on the timescales we are talking about?

 

 

 

Hyperspace lanes, and the danger of creating and mapping new ones, is the most logical explanation of why, in a Galaxy filled with vehicules that can cross it in a few weeks for the last 25 000 years, there are still unexplored areas, or even why the outside rim of the Galaxy still has unknown threats that were never encountered, like the Yuuzan Vong...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Maybe I read it wrong, however I remember reading somewhere else a more detailed explaination of it. That the Hyperspace routes had been calculated millenniums ago by the race that you saw in the KOTOR games. Creating news paths was extremely dangerous, and the navcomputers were for navigating variations in those existing routes, not for creating new ones.

So wheres the evidence form the movies? I find it odd that BDZ and ICS numbers are clearly wrong since they werent, explicitly demonstrated in the movies. But yet this, which would impose a limitation not seen in the movies is apparently something the EU wasnt deluded about.

[Jason 27]

That not point trying to make. The point trying to make is that Hypersdrives are good when comes getting system A to system B. Warp drives a lot faster in deep space for avoiding other starships like a Star Destroyer that anything traveling faster then light for just a few a few hundred miles. It would be an easily way to stay out Vader weapons range.

[Tyralak 12,068]

So wheres the evidence form the movies? I find it odd that BDZ and ICS numbers are clearly wrong since they werent, explicitly demonstrated in the movies. But yet this, which would impose a limitation not seen in the movies is apparently something the EU wasnt deluded about.

 

 

 

The issue is, it wasn't touched upon in the movies. If you know of something that contradicts it, by all means bring it out. The closest thing I remember was the Han Solo quote that was brought out earlier. The issue with BDZ and the ICS numbers is nothing in the movies even remotely resembled what was claimed. The movies, are of course supreme. The Clone Wars TV show is second. Everything else is distant third.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

The issue is, it wasn't touched upon in the movies. If you know of something that contradicts it, by all means bring it out. The closest thing I remember was the Han Solo quote that was brought out earlier. The issue with BDZ and the ICS numbers is nothing in the movies even remotely resembled what was claimed. The movies, are of course supreme. The Clone Wars TV show is second. Everything else is distant third.

So when was a BDZ shown in the movies?

[Praeothmin 532]

So when was a BDZ shown in the movies?

 

 

 

Never, nor have we ever seen anything remotely looking like BDZ level of Firepower ever in the movies...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Never, nor have we ever seen anything remotely looking like BDZ level of Firepower ever in the movies...

Obviously it just wasnt covered in the movies, they've never said they were firing at full power , so they havent contradicted BDZ calcs or ICS.

[Praeothmin 532]

Obviously it just wasnt covered in the movies, they've never said they were firing at full power , so they havent contradicted BDZ calcs or ICS.

 

 

 

Cool, then please explain to me why fighters who are rated a 1 Kiloton per shot in the ICS did not display that kind of Firepower.

 

Neither the troop transport on Geonosis nor their missiles did anything close to their stated Firepower, even in battles where the power of a few tons of TNT would have been useful, especially vs the Droid army.

 

 

 

For another example, Jango's ship is stated to be more powerful then a Jedi Starfighter (which has weapons rated at 1 Kiloton).

 

Jango clearly wanted to destroy the Obi-Wan, and yet while firing at it, never displayed anything near a Kiloton in Firepower in the effects noticed on asteroids that were hit.

 

Jango had all the trouble in the world hitting Obi-Wan's ship, and the rare times he did, damaged it using shots that were clearly not near the Kilton range.

 

If Jango had had the Firepower described in the ICS available to him, then surely he would have used it against Obi-Wan...

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Cool, then please explain to me why fighters who are rated a 1 Kiloton per shot in the ICS did not display that kind of Firepower.

 

Neither the troop transport on Geonosis nor their missiles did anything close to their stated Firepower, even in battles where the power of a few tons of TNT would have been useful, especially vs the Droid army.

Overkill, a single 1kt blast would kill everone for hundreds of meters around it. Same reason modern armies dont fling around tac nukes like crazy

 

 

 

For another example, Jango's ship is stated to be more powerful then a Jedi Starfighter (which has weapons rated at 1 Kiloton).

 

Jango clearly wanted to destroy the Obi-Wan, and yet while firing at it, never displayed anything near a Kiloton in Firepower in the effects noticed on asteroids that were hit.

 

Jango had all the trouble in the world hitting Obi-Wan's ship, and the rare times he did, damaged it using shots that were clearly not near the Kilton range.

Based on what?

 

If Jango had had the Firepower described in the ICS available to him, then surely he would have used it against Obi-Wan...

 

He may have. Its hard to tell in space

[Jason 27]

There are no hyperspace lines otherwise that Jedi knight would have never been able to got to that alien race Star System that build grant army of clones for the Republic. That beside the point we never seen Star Destroyer us it hyperdrives to chase other starships. We have seen warp drive be used for that. As long as Nova class starship stay at warp 2 she quit safe from Star destroyer main guns.

[Praeothmin 532]

Overkill, a single 1kt blast would kill everone for hundreds of meters around it. Same reason modern armies dont fling around tac nukes like crazy

 

 

 

No, you see, modern armies don't have multiple Tac-Nukes at hand, that are as easy to use as their normal weapons.

 

Fighter planes don't carry around Tac-Nukes, and Tac-Nukes are our most powerful weapons.

 

So Tac-Nukes in SW could only be compared to HTLs on Capital ships.

 

 

 

And an explosion with the explosive force of 1 Kiloton still doesn't necessarily create radiation, which our Nukes do, which is also another deterrent.

 

 

 

So why don't they just have one Fighter do a fly-by, shoot those Kiloton guns at the advancing army, and then let his troops mop up the remaining resistance will a lot less losses in life, which would be logical.

 

Heck, you don't even need 1 Kiloton, just fire with 50% strength, or even 20%...

 

But we nerver see comparable yields...

 

 

 

Based on what?

 

 

 

 

On the damage done to the asteroids he hits while pursuing Obi-Wan.

 

He fragments, and doesn't vaporize, asteroids no more then 10 meters across, and the bigger ones aren't even completely destroyed...

 

As I said, nowhere near 1 Kiloton...