United Federations of Planets Alliance vs Galactic Empire (Non-EU)

[Picard578 0]

Here, Federation Alliance (UFP, Klingon Empire, Romulan Empire) takes on Galactic Empire. No EU materials allowed. Both sides are enjoying time of relative peace - while there will be activity by Maquis or Rebel Alliance, it will not be anything that might hamper ability of either side to wage war.

[Questor 501]

OK, a few questions on this one, mostly to determine how honest you are being. I'm assuming the "It has to fit modern physics unless explicitly stated" rule is in effect (as it should always be).

 

 

 

1. What is the operating mechanism of the Death Star? Why?

 

 

 

2. How many Clone troopers are there available in Attack of the Clones? Why?

 

 

 

3. What is the maximum warp speed. Why?

 

 

 

4. How large is the Death Star 1? Why?

 

 

 

5. How large is the Death Star 2? Why?

 

 

 

6. How long is the Executor? Why?

[enigma 521]

Here, Federation Alliance (UFP, Klingon Empire, Romulan Empire) takes on Galactic Empire. No EU materials allowed. Both sides are enjoying time of relative peace - while there will be activity by Maquis or Rebel Alliance, it will not be anything that might hamper ability of either side to wage war.

 

 

 

Just by sheer weight of ship numbers and industrial capacity alone is enough to give the Galactic Empire an overwhelming edge.

[Picard578 0]

OK, a few questions on this one, mostly to determine how honest you are being. I'm assuming the "It has to fit modern physics unless explicitly stated" rule is in effect (as it should always be).

 

 

 

It has to fit physics of universe in question. Of course, since both Star Wars and Star Trek universes use our universe as basis, it has to fit phsics of our own universe in most aspects; however, there are some things that are simply hard or impossible to explain with our current knowledge of phsics (some of wierder phaser effects for example). But if this is what you are asking, then yes, E=mc^2 still works.

 

 

 

1. What is the operating mechanism of the Death Star? Why?

 

 

 

Superlaser or power production?

 

 

 

2. How many Clone troopers are there available in Attack of the Clones? Why?

 

 

 

200 000 "units" (whatever that is) plus 1 000 000 on the way. However, I think that TCW suggests that "units" are actually individual clones, althought it could also be anywhere from fireteam up.

 

 

 

3. What is the maximum warp speed. Why?

 

 

 

Heavily inconsistent, but TNG episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before" suggests 9 000 c sustainable speed in empty space. "The Chase" gives speed of up to 3 600 000 c, but it is mentioned that it overextended warp drive - plus it is mostly inconsistent with other showings where they have trouble getting dozen ships in response to immediate threat. Currently, I am mostly inclined to accept Graham Kennedy's "warp highway" idea to explain inconsistencies.

 

 

 

4. How large is the Death Star 1? Why?

 

 

 

~120 kilometers. Scaling here.

 

 

 

5. How large is the Death Star 2? Why?

 

 

 

~180 kilometers, but I'll probably have to do actual scaling someday.

 

 

 

6. How long is the Executor? Why?

 

 

 

 

My scaling suggestssize of ~12 kilometers.

 

 

 

Just by sheer weight of ship numbers and industrial capacity alone is enough to give the Galactic Empire an overwhelming edge.

 

 

 

 

Care to elaborate? Empire has up to 150 000 inhabited systems, but I don't think it has more than 300 million to few billion men in army total. Plus it does not recruit aliens, wich reduces its recruitment base, althought it is still vastly greater than that of UFP.

 

 

 

On the other hand, UFP has ~1150 planets. If all other powers have similar count, then it is ~3500 planetrs total. However, most of planets in both sides seem to be relatively lightly populated - while some UFP colonies are probably near Earth in population, most are much smaller. Also, Star Wars planets seem to vary from city worlds to planets with population density less than that of modern-day Canada or Russia.

 

 

 

As for military, here:

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/comparation/military.html

 

 

 

While Empire has much larger manpower, you must remember that Republic enjoyed peace for 1000 years (during its entire lifetime) while Alpha Quadrant powers were constantly at, or under threat of, war with someone (including each other). Meaning that they will probably be much more militarized than Empire is, alhought Empire is probably more militarized than Republic.

[Questor 501]

As I suspected, you're a dishonest idiot who defines no-EU to mean "Only the EU I like."

 

 

 

1. Power Production is indeterminate, if you had a brain in your head, you'd know I meant superlaser.

 

 

 

2. Saying a "unit" means an individual trooper is idiocy - and is an EU source, namely Karen Travis - A unit might, depending on tactical doctrine, be as small as a company, but you're most likely looking at battalion or regimental sized independant units.

 

 

 

3. Graham Kennedy wasn't the first person to propose warp highways - he's just the favorite of the trekkie ignorancia, and you missed the highest speed demonstrated.

 

 

 

4. EHHHH - Wrong - You used EU sources. Only one truely independant sizing has been done, guess who did it?

 

 

 

5. EHHHH - Wrong - You used EU sources.

 

 

 

6. You're scaling suggests you're an idiot. You picked an EU source you liked and made the evidence fit it.

 

 

 

Reach back farther, 1 million inhabited worlds minimum. Even assuming low levels of militarization and industrialization, you're going to lose.

[Picard578 0]

Really? So, you REALLY think that MOVIES, MOVIE NOVELIZATIONS, TCW, and RADIO PLAYS are part of EU? Beacouse it is ALL material I used, and NOTHING ELSE. You are either liar, or so unfamiliar with actual Star Wars canon that you don't know what is canon and what EU. Or you never saw/read anything outside of EU, which seems best explanation.

 

 

 

1) Power production is fusion, beacouse it is standard in canon. Superlaser is basically technobabble weapon.

 

 

 

2) No, it is not from EU source. Watch Attack of the Clones (which you OBVIOUSLY never did). When Obi-Wan talks to Kaminoan chief-of-state or whatever, she says that they have "200 000 units and million more on the way". And she is civilian, so it is not clear wether she used standard or military definition of unit.

 

 

 

3) I'm not surprised.

 

 

 

4) No, I used MOVIES. And I did my OWN scaling.

 

 

 

5) As above. Did you even notice a link? Or you simply like lying?

 

 

 

6) Everything I scaled I scaled from movies. I have no interest or knowledge in EU aside from that single book I read. And in that book, Death Star is nowhere mentioned.

 

 

 

Or 1 million worlds total. Maximum is 100 000 inhabited worlds.

[Questor 501]

Really? So, you REALLY think that MOVIES, MOVIE NOVELIZATIONS, TCW, and RADIO PLAYS are part of EU? Beacouse it is ALL material I used, and NOTHING ELSE. You are either liar, or so unfamiliar with actual Star Wars canon that you don't know what is canon and what EU. Or you never saw/read anything outside of EU, which seems best explanation.

 

 

 

1) Power production is fusion, beacouse it is standard in canon. Superlaser is basically technobabble weapon.

 

 

 

I'd like to see citations, including running times, on fusion being used as "standard in canon". And I'd really love to see a source for technobabble being used to describe the superlaser. I think that you've forgotten that Star Trek and Star Wars are different.

 

 

 

2) No, it is not from EU source. Watch Attack of the Clones (which you OBVIOUSLY never did). When Obi-Wan talks to Kaminoan chief-of-state or whatever, she says that they have "200 000 units and million more on the way". And she is civilian, so it is not clear wether she used standard or military definition of unit.

 

 

 

Actually, she's a product manager, you idiot. She knows her product. And I have watched the movie, I just don't accept Karen Travis's retarded idea that 1,200,000 soldiers is enough to conquer a region on a single planet, much less an entire galaxy. How many people were under arms in Europe during the period 1939-1945?

 

 

 

3) I'm not surprised.

 

 

 

4) No, I used MOVIES. And I did my OWN scaling.

 

 

 

Your scaling is idiotic. Please provide evidence that you are looking at an equitorial rather than longitudinal trench. And also, where are your "milimeters" coming from? Are you using a ruler on your monitor? (I wouldn't put it past you, it would be consistent with the rest of your general sloppynes.)

 

 

 

Here's some more questions relating to my standard methods of analysis. What is the minimum size for a rocky moon to sphericalize? What is the smallest spherical object in the solar system? In order for the DS1 to be mistaken for a moon, it needs to have a radius that at least makes sense as a moon. Han Solo may not be an astrophysicist, but he's probably seen enough moons (just based on his boasting) to have an idea of exactly how big they have to be to be a sphere.

 

 

 

Here's a hint, hydrostatic equilibrium doesn't tend to show up until 400km.

 

 

 

5) As above. Did you even notice a link? Or you simply like lying?

 

 

 

I did, I just think you're an idiot - and since your numbers match the incorrect numbers given on so many EU sources, the idea that you are working backwards to standard Trekkie stupidity is an acceptable hypothesis. It should be noted that ALL instances of the 120 km size are EU, out of date, or Trektard fansite.

 

 

 

6) Everything I scaled I scaled from movies. I have no interest or knowledge in EU aside from that single book I read. And in that book, Death Star is nowhere mentioned.

 

 

 

You did not provide a link to your scaling methodology for the Executor.

 

 

 

I don't know if you have any interest or knowledge of the EU, but you've certainly shown that you like to peruse a number of questionable reference sources. And I believe you also have a number of problems with reading comprehensions, as is evidenced by your companion thread.

 

 

 

Or 1 million worlds total. Maximum is 100 000 inhabited worlds.

 

 

 

 

Wow, so now you're changing your numbers over a matter of days?

[Picard578 0]

I'd like to see citations, including running times, on fusion being used as "standard in canon". And I'd really love to see a source for technobabble being used to describe the superlaser. I think that you've forgotten that Star Trek and Star Wars are different.

 

 

 

 

Here:

 

 

 

"Children on Tatooine tell each other of the dragons that live inside the suns; smaller cousins of the sun-dragons are supposed to live inside the fusion furnaces that power everything from starships to Podracers."

 

 

 

-----------

 

 

 

"Space filled temporarily with trillions of microscopic metal fragments, propelled past the retreating ships by the liberated energy of a small artificial sun."

 

 

 

Fusion furnaces power everything, from starships to Podracers. That part is so clear that there should be no discussion about it.

 

 

 

As for second quote, it shows that Death Star too is powered by fusion - fragments are propelled past ships by "liberated energy of small artificial sun". Well, only thing in common that sun can have with reactor is the way it produces energy - that is, fusion. And if quote was referring to amount of energy, then it would have said "by amount of energy that is liberated by star" or something like that; also, "small, artifical sun" abviously refers to way Death Star's reactor works - that is, fusion, which is also way any living star produces energy, be it standard star, or red giant.

 

 

 

As for fusion being standard:

 

 

 

'You ready for some power?' Luke asked Artoo, who was patiently waiting for his own form of nourishment. Luke took a small fusion furnace from an equipment box and ignited it, welcoming even the tiny glow thrown off by the small heating device, then took a power cable and attached it to Artoo [...] As power radiated through Artoo's electronic innards, the stout robot whistled his appreciation.

 

 

 

Granted, we are later told that it was fission furnace, but it is nuclear reactor nevertheless.

 

 

 

And no, Star Trek and Star Wars are not different, except that Star Trek is relatively more realistic, and tries to explain its technobabble, while Star Wars does not go to such lengths to explain its technology.

 

 

 

Here is for superlaser:

 

 

 

ANH novelisation page 178:

 

 

 

 

 

"Theoretically, no weapon could penetrate the exceptionally dense stone of the ancient temple, but Luke had seen the shattered remnants of Alderaan and knew that for those in the incredible battle station that the entire moon would present simply another abstract problem in mass-energy conversion."

 

 

 

Actually, she's a product manager, you idiot. She knows her product. And I have watched the movie, I just don't accept Karen Travis's retarded idea that 1,200,000 soldiers is enough to conquer a region on a single planet, much less an entire galaxy. How many people were under arms in Europe during the period 1939-1945?

 

 

 

 

Definetly not enough in modern terms. But Republic had no army at that time, and existed without any wars for 1000 years in well-explored modest-sized galaxy, so it is not as insane as you think. Besides, in TCW it is said that Republic will go bankrupt after funding production of 5 million clones, althought it probably includes money for additional research (probably to accelerate growth even more - they did not have a decade to grow these reinforcements, and maybe some other things), equipment, ships, training and so on.

 

 

 

Your scaling is idiotic. Please provide evidence that you are looking at an equitorial rather than longitudinal trench. And also, where are your "milimeters" coming from? Are you using a ruler on your monitor? (I wouldn't put it past you, it would be consistent with the rest of your general sloppynes.)

 

 

 

 

Ruler in Photoshop. Sometimes I use millimeters, sometimes pixels.

 

 

 

Here's some more questions relating to my standard methods of analysis. What is the minimum size for a rocky moon to sphericalize? What is the smallest spherical object in the solar system? In order for the DS1 to be mistaken for a moon, it needs to have a radius that at least makes sense as a moon. Han Solo may not be an astrophysicist, but he's probably seen enough moons (just based on his boasting) to have an idea of exactly how big they have to be to be a sphere.

 

 

 

 

You are talking about show where people need only air masks to go out in vacuum. And no, worm did not close the mouth.

 

 

 

I did, I just think you're an idiot - and since your numbers match the incorrect numbers given on so many EU sources, the idea that you are working backwards to standard Trekkie stupidity is an acceptable hypothesis. It should be noted that ALL instances of the 120 km size are EU, out of date, or Trektard fansite.

 

 

 

 

And where I said that ALL EU numbers are incorrect? WHERE? And I DO NOT use EU, idiot.

 

 

 

We have a saying that "Even a blind chicken sometims finds a corn. EU is no exception.

 

 

 

You did not provide a link to your scaling methodology for the Executor.

 

 

 

I don't know if you have any interest or knowledge of the EU, but you've certainly shown that you like to peruse a number of questionable reference sources. And I believe you also have a number of problems with reading comprehensions, as is evidenced by your companion thread.

 

 

 

And you have problem with being as honest as a politician, with similar IQ (room-temperature level). If you are too lazy (more likely, stupid) to search it, here it is:

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/scaling/exscaling.html

 

 

 

Wow, so now you're changing your numbers over a matter of days?

 

 

 

 

And what is wrong with that? When you find that number is wrong, you correct it. But YOU think that you are always correct, even when you are not, and you don't bother to check it in canon (I would guess that you never watched SW movies or read any of movie novels).

[InvaderSkooj 1]

But if this is what you are asking, then yes, E=mc^2 still works.

Through technobabble apparently since that is your excuse for the DS weapon being technobabble

 

 

 

 

 

~120 kilometers. Scaling here.

And just where in canon(non EU) is the MF stated to be 22.5m wide? Scaling is flawed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~180 kilometers, but I'll probably have to do actual scaling someday.

Based upon your unsourced size for the MF and unscourced assumption between the DS I and DS II this scaling is also flawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My scaling suggestssize of ~12 kilometers.

Where in canon pray tell is a rebel transport stated to be 90m long? Also where is your scaling showing the trench of an ISD is the same size as the trench on the Executor? More flawed scaling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Care to elaborate? Empire has up to 150 000 inhabited systems, but I don't think it has more than 300 million to few billion men in army total. Plus it does not recruit aliens, wich reduces its recruitment base, althought it is still vastly greater than that of UFP.

Your own quotes say the Empire is a million worlds. Source for number of Inhabited systems?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really? So, you REALLY think that MOVIES, MOVIE NOVELIZATIONS, TCW, and RADIO PLAYS are part of EU? Beacouse it is ALL material I used, and NOTHING ELSE. You are either liar, or so unfamiliar with actual Star Wars canon that you don't know what is canon and what EU. Or you never saw/read anything outside of EU, which seems best explanation.

Yet you used EU sources for ships used in your flawed scalings.

 

 

 

1) Power production is fusion, beacouse it is standard in canon. Superlaser is basically technobabble weapon.

Fusion of what?

 

 

 

 

 

4) No, I used MOVIES. And I did my OWN scaling.

Odd, I dont remeber them stating the size of the MF or a rebel transport in canon

 

 

 

5) As above. Did you even notice a link? Or you simply like lying?

As explained above you used EU sources for the sizes of your known objects on top of your unsourced assumptions as to various objects relations between each other, like how you declared the trench to be thrice the size of the docking vestibule, and the trenches on an ISD and SSD to be identical.

 

 

 

6) Everything I scaled I scaled from movies. I have no interest or knowledge in EU aside from that single book I read. And in that book, Death Star is nowhere mentioned.

Yet you used the EU for the sizes of your known objects in your scaling

 

 

 

Or 1 million worlds total. Maximum is 100 000 inhabited worlds.

 

Where? The quotes on your page is subject to interpretation, and you have provided no canon evidence to support your interpretation

 

 

 

 

 

Here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fusion furnaces power everything, from starships to Podracers. That part is so clear that there should be no discussion about it.

Hyperbole, also a no limit fallacy, and fusion of what? Sun Dragons? Also demonstrates the logical fallacies of division, and hasty generalization.

 

 

 

As for second quote, it shows that Death Star too is powered by fusion - fragments are propelled past ships by "liberated energy of small artificial sun". Well, only thing in common that sun can have with reactor is the way it produces energy - that is, fusion. And if quote was referring to amount of energy, then it would have said "by amount of energy that is liberated by star" or something like that; also, "small, artifical sun" abviously refers to way Death Star's reactor works - that is, fusion, which is also way any living star produces energy, be it standard star, or red giant.

Again, hyperbole, and the logical fallacies of slippery slope, false dilemma, and false dichotomy

 

 

 

As for fusion being standard:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted, we are later told that it was fission furnace, but it is nuclear reactor nevertheless.

And what is the energy density of Sun Dragons?

 

 

 

And no, Star Trek and Star Wars are not different, except that Star Trek is relatively more realistic, and tries to explain its technobabble, while Star Wars does not go to such lengths to explain its technology.

Ha Ha hilarious. Some things are just better left unsaid.

 

 

 

Here is for superlaser:

So E=mc^2 is technobabble now? Yet another example of false dichotomy and the related logical fallacies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And where I said that ALL EU numbers are incorrect? WHERE? And I DO NOT use EU, idiot.

You did in your scaling......idiot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you have problem with being as honest as a politician, with similar IQ (room-temperature level). If you are too lazy (more likely, stupid) to search it, here it is:

 

http://picard578.hos.../exscaling.html

 

Alas, his objections are entirely reasonable, since you used the EU in your scaling, and many of your assumptions are based off of logical fallacies

[Picard578 0]

Through technobabble apparently since that is your excuse for the DS weapon being technobabble

 

 

 

 

Is it not?

 

 

 

And just where in canon(non EU) is the MF stated to be 22.5m wide? Scaling is flawed

 

 

 

 

I found that on Darkstar's page. And everything I saw roughly supports that figure.

 

 

 

Based upon your unsourced size for the MF and unscourced assumption between the DS I and DS II this scaling is also flawed.

 

 

 

 

Unsourced assumption can be confirmed by simply watching movies; docking scenes, to be precise.

 

 

 

Based upon your unsourced size for the MF and unscourced assumption between the DS I and DS II this scaling is also flawed.

 

 

 

 

Nope. It is not.

 

 

 

Where in canon pray tell is a rebel transport stated to be 90m long? Also where is your scaling showing the trench of an ISD is the same size as the trench on the Executor? More flawed scaling.

 

 

 

 

Watch transport escape scene; transport is around 8 - 9 times longer than X-wing (which is ~9.5 meters long). RotJ gives its length, based on quick estimate, as being ~9 to 10 times the length of X-wing. That is 85.5 to 95 meters in length. Middle figure is 90 meters, and it happens to be in EU too (meaning that at least someone actually watched movie before writing something).

 

 

 

Where in canon pray tell is a rebel transport stated to be 90m long? Also where is your scaling showing the trench of an ISD is the same size as the trench on the Executor? More flawed scaling.

 

 

 

 

Trench on ISD is not the same size as trench on Executor; trench on ISD is 16 meters high, while this trench is over 45 meters high. 40 meters minimum.

 

 

 

Your own quotes say the Empire is a million worlds. Source for number of Inhabited systems?

 

 

 

 

Did not click on link, eh? Everything is explained there.

 

 

 

Yet you used EU sources for ships used in your flawed scalings.

 

 

 

 

No, I did not. And how it is flawed? Please elaborate.

 

 

 

Fusion of what?

 

 

 

 

Hydrogen, deuterium, name it.

 

 

 

Odd, I dont remeber them stating the size of the MF or a rebel transport in canon

 

 

 

 

I took size of Millenium Falcon from Darkstar's site.

[Picard578 0]

As explained above you used EU sources for the sizes of your known objects on top of your unsourced assumptions as to various objects relations between each other, like how you declared the trench to be thrice the size of the docking vestibule, and the trenches on an ISD and SSD to be identical.

 

 

 

 

Riiiiiiiiight. You don't know how to use your eyes, OR you have serious eyesight issues.

 

 

 

Trenches on ISD and SSD are NOT identical. Trench on ISD is 16 meters high.

 

 

 

As for Death Star trench...

 

 

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/scaling/dsscaling.html

 

 

 

Explain me how it is NOT 3 times height of docking vestibule.

 

 

 

Yet you used the EU for the sizes of your known objects in your scaling

 

 

 

 

I'm not guilty if EU is sometimes in line with canon.

 

 

 

Where? The quotes on your page is subject to interpretation, and you have provided no canon evidence to support your interpretation

 

 

 

 

Really? So in short, you are saying:

 

 

 

"That and that on this page is wrong, althought I did not read that page."

 

 

 

Hyperbole, also a no limit fallacy, and fusion of what? Sun Dragons? Also demonstrates the logical fallacies of division, and hasty generalization.

 

 

 

 

Huh? You are saying that this:

 

 

 

"Children on Tatooine tell each other of the dragons that live inside the suns; smaller cousins of the sun-dragons are supposed to live inside the fusion furnaces that power everything from starships to Podracers."

 

 

 

And this:

 

 

 

"Space filled temporarily with trillions of microscopic metal fragments, propelled past the retreating ships by the liberated energy of a small artificial sun."

 

 

 

points to anything other than fusion? Sun-dragons are legends, but narrator is quite clear and direct that fusion furnaces power everything from starships to podracers.

 

 

 

Again, hyperbole, and the logical fallacies of slippery slope, false dilemma, and false dichotomy

 

 

 

 

Prove it. Narrator explicitly said "by energy of small artificial sun". ENERGY OF SUN, not ENERGY OUTPUT EQUIVALENT TO SUN'S. That is fusion.

 

 

 

And what is the energy density of Sun Dragons?

 

 

 

 

Same as your IQ. 0.

 

 

 

Sun Dragons are legendary beings supposed to live within fusion generators. Since when mythological beings are used as fuel for power production?

 

 

 

Ha Ha hilarious. Some things are just better left unsaid.

 

 

 

 

Explain me hyperdrive, then. Explain light-sabers. Explain proton torpedoes. Explain blasters. Explain hyperspace. Star Trek makes crapload of mistakes, but technology was mostly based on science and scientific theories, althought some of them were proved to be false in meantime. VFX department and writers not following guidelines set by advisors on show is another thing.

 

 

 

So E=mc^2 is technobabble now? Yet another example of false dichotomy and the related logical fallacies.

 

 

 

 

And do we even know how superlaser works? Wait. We don't. We only know that field left behind destruction of Alderaan is far denser than what it should be if superlaser was DET. And then that wierd circles around Death Star after explosion.

 

 

 

You did in your scaling......idiot

 

 

 

 

Riiiight. Look above.

 

 

 

Alas, his objections are entirely reasonable, since you used the EU in your scaling, and many of your assumptions are based off of logical fallacies

 

 

 

 

Riiight. If you want logical falacies, read your own posts or Wong's site. Or Star Wars EU in general.

[enigma 521]

 

 

 

Just by sheer weight of ship numbers and industrial capacity alone is enough to give the Galactic Empire an overwhelming edge.

 

Care to elaborate? Empire has up to 150 000 inhabited systems, but I don't think it has more than 300 million to few billion men in army total. Plus it does not recruit aliens, wich reduces its recruitment base, althought it is still vastly greater than that of UFP.

 

 

 

On the other hand, UFP has ~1150 planets. If all other powers have similar count, then it is ~3500 planetrs total. However, most of planets in both sides seem to be relatively lightly populated - while some UFP colonies are probably near Earth in population, most are much smaller. Also, Star Wars planets seem to vary from city worlds to planets with population density less than that of modern-day Canada or Russia.

 

 

 

As for military, here:

 

http://picard578.hos...n/military.html

 

 

 

While Empire has much larger manpower, you must remember that Republic enjoyed peace for 1000 years (during its entire lifetime) while Alpha Quadrant powers were constantly at, or under threat of, war with someone (including each other). Meaning that they will probably be much more militarized than Empire is, alhought Empire is probably more militarized than Republic.

 

 

 

 

You seem to forget that the Old Republic has been around for 25,000 years, not 1,000. 1,000 years would be the number of years the OR has been in relative peace not its entire existence.

 

 

 

The GE has had upwards of 25,000 ISDs alone. This number does not include countless smaller ships and several larger ships. UFPA cannot match them. Does the UFPA have a star system dedicated in building starships? GE has at least one, the Kuat Drive Yards. Then there's the Rendili StarDrive. Besides having their major shipyards over Rendili, they have numerous smaller yards spread out throughout the Mid and Outer Rims. They've also have the Corellian Engineering Corporation and the Sienar Fleet systems (I think I got that name right).

 

 

 

I find it extremely laughable that you consider the UFPA to be more militarized than the GE. The Klingons maybe, since they built their society around a warrior's code but the Romulans and the UFP are not in any way more militarized than the GE. The UFP does not have a free stranding army, a conscripted army or even a combination of both. They rely on orbital superiority before sending their officers and security personnel down to the planet. They have equipment and weaponry to outfit one, yet there's no indication that they have one. The entire lifespan of the GE and its successive incarnations have constantly been embroiled in conflict in some form or another. The UFP on the other hand have lapsed into a peace time stance after every conflict (save for the Dominion War since that may have finally shaken the UFP to its core, but then again we don't have any canonical data of post-Dominion War era).

 

 

 

You want to see a more militarized Federation? Then see Yesterday's Enterprise. THAT is a UFP that is militarized. Going by memory, the E-D looked like it had armour, it was heavily armed and could carry upwards of 6,000 troops. This would indicate that the UFP of YE era actually had an army.

 

 

 

The UFPA would lose very badly against the GE.

 

 

 

EDIT: As for your narrow minded mentality as to what constitutes a unit, remember that unit can be comprised of more than one individual. You've heard of the family unit? One family but it is comprised of more than one individuals. Then there's the army unit.

 

 

 

Here's The Free Dictionary's thesaurus definition of the army unit.

 

 

Noun1.army unit - a military unit that is part of an army

 

army, ground forces, regular army - a permanent organization of the military land forces of a nation or state

 

military force, military group, military unit, force - a unit that is part of some military service; "he sent Caesar a force of six thousand men"

 

armed forces, armed services, military, military machine, war machine - the military forces of a nation; "their military is the largest in the region"; "the military machine is the same one we faced in 1991 but now it is weaker"

 

army corps, corps - an army unit usually consisting of two or more divisions and their support

 

division - an army unit large enough to sustain combat; "two infantry divisions were held in reserve"

 

battle group - an army unit usually consisting of five companies

 

regiment - army unit smaller than a division

 

brigade - army unit smaller than a division

 

battalion - an army unit usually consisting of a headquarters and three or more companies

 

company - small military unit; usually two or three platoons

 

platoon - a military unit that is a subdivision of a company; usually has a headquarters and two or more squads; usually commanded by a lieutenant

 

detachment - a small unit of troops of special compositionvanguard, van - the leading units moving at the head of an army

 

section - a small army unit usually having a special function

 

squad - a smallest army unit

 

troop - a group of soldiers

 

troop - a cavalry unit corresponding to an infantry company

 

artillery unit, artillery - an army unit that uses big guns

 

musketry - musketeers and their muskets collectively

 

cavalry - a highly mobile army unit

 

infantry, foot - an army unit consisting of soldiers who fight on foot; "there came ten thousand horsemen and as many fully-armed foot"

 

military personnel, soldiery, troops - soldiers collectively

 

 

 

Now where does it say that it has to mean only one individual per unit?

[Tyralak 12,068]

I'm of the opinion the UFP could easily win against the GE. They just need a few more things in their arsenal. If they were somehow able to obtain a whiney farm boy, a space pirate, two robots and a Sasquatch, the GE wouldn't stand a chance.

[Khas 12,158]

Um, when dealing with SW firepower, you might want to look at this video:

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmYwX7r9ATo&feature=related

[enigma 521]

I'm of the opinion the UFP could easily win against the GE. They just need a few more things in their arsenal. If they were somehow able to obtain a whiney farm boy, a space pirate, two robots and a Sasquatch, the GE wouldn't stand a chance.

 

 

 

T'is funny.

[enigma 521]

Um, when dealing with SW firepower, you might want to look at this video:

 

 

 

I haven't seen that many TCW episodes but that link is the first time I've seen a warship come out of hyperspace. Pretty freaky. One moment there's nothing and then the next *POP* warships firing up your asshole.

[Picard578 0]

You seem to forget that the Old Republic has been around for 25,000 years, not 1,000. 1,000 years would be the number of years the OR has been in relative peace not its entire existence.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I do forget it, since it is EU material and therefore has nothing to do with this thread. 1000 years is only figure we have from canon.

[enigma 521]

Yes, I do forget it, since it is EU material and therefore has nothing to do with this thread. 1000 years is only figure we have from canon.

 

 

 

1,000 years in existence or years of peace? Which one did the movie state?

[Khas 12,158]

In Attack of the Clones, Palpatine said that the Republic had stood for a thousand years.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VEdD8QOlGk

 

 

 

At about 4:05

 

 

 

And yes, I know that saying when he says it seems like something Jason would do. It's just that I have no idea how to edit videos so they get right to the point.

[Questor 501]

To quote another mod on another board:

 

RAAAAAAAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason 27]

I'd like to see citations, including running times, on fusion being used as "standard in canon". And I'd really love to see a source for technobabble being used to describe the superlaser. I think that you've forgotten that Star Trek and Star Wars are different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, she's a product manager, you idiot. She knows her product. And I have watched the movie, I just don't accept Karen Travis's retarded idea that 1,200,000 soldiers is enough to conquer a region on a single planet, much less an entire galaxy. How many people were under arms in Europe during the period 1939-1945?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your scaling is idiotic. Please provide evidence that you are looking at an equitorial rather than longitudinal trench. And also, where are your "milimeters" coming from? Are you using a ruler on your monitor? (I wouldn't put it past you, it would be consistent with the rest of your general sloppynes.)

 

 

 

Here's some more questions relating to my standard methods of analysis. What is the minimum size for a rocky moon to sphericalize? What is the smallest spherical object in the solar system? In order for the DS1 to be mistaken for a moon, it needs to have a radius that at least makes sense as a moon. Han Solo may not be an astrophysicist, but he's probably seen enough moons (just based on his boasting) to have an idea of exactly how big they have to be to be a sphere.

 

 

 

Here's a hint, hydrostatic equilibrium doesn't tend to show up until 400km.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did, I just think you're an idiot - and since your numbers match the incorrect numbers given on so many EU sources, the idea that you are working backwards to standard Trekkie stupidity is an acceptable hypothesis. It should be noted that ALL instances of the 120 km size are EU, out of date, or Trektard fansite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You did not provide a link to your scaling methodology for the Executor.

 

 

 

I don't know if you have any interest or knowledge of the EU, but you've certainly shown that you like to peruse a number of questionable reference sources. And I believe you also have a number of problems with reading comprehensions, as is evidenced by your companion thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, so now you're changing your numbers over a matter of days?

 

Mix anti matter with matter having to explode on contact is not fusion. Spock used term wrong fusion have atoms get push together. As for shield technology the UFP shield technology much more advance anything Empire has inch per inch. Star destroyer after all lot bigger UFP starship. How UFP starship same size as Star destroyer a astiriod hit bridge UFP starship shield weaken little bit if the same astiriod hit Star destroyer same bridge destroyed. After the Dominion war enough form All good thing and End games. UFP has armor can protect against energy weapon system with stand many Borg tractor beams. UFP Nova class starship more then match for a star destroyer form End Games. Galaxy Class X starship could make quick work eat Star destroyer up easily. UFP Defiant class mothball suggest UFP has more powerful starship replace class it.

[Questor 501]

Mix anti matter with matter having to explode on contact is not fusion. Spock used term wrong fusion have atoms get push together. As for shield technology the UFP shield technology much more advance anything Empire has inch per inch. Star destroyer after all lot bigger UFP starship. How UFP starship same size as Star destroyer a astiriod hit bridge UFP starship shield weaken little bit if the same astiriod hit Star destroyer same bridge destroyed. After the Dominion war enough form All good thing and End games. UFP has armor can protect against energy weapon system with stand many Borg tractor beams. UFP Nova class starship more then match for a star destroyer form End Games. Galaxy Class X starship could make quick work eat Star destroyer up easily. UFP Defiant class mothball suggest UFP has more powerful starship replace class it.

 

 

 

What does that have to do with what I said?

[enigma 521]

In Attack of the Clones, Palpatine said that the Republic had stood for a thousand years.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3VEdD8QOlGk

 

 

 

At about 4:05

 

 

 

And yes, I know that saying when he says it seems like something Jason would do. It's just that I have no idea how to edit videos so they get right to the point.

 

 

 

Got one for the hearing impaired?

 

 

 

Also, didn't Obi Wan mentioned in ANH that the Jedi were guardians of the Old Republic for over a thousand generations? Wouldn't that make the OR lasting somewhere between 20,000 to 30,000 years?

[Picard578 0]

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic." ―Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

 

 

It seems that way. Althought I don't remember if it was said in movies (I didn't watch them completely for a long time). If it wasn't, then it's easy. If it was, we have a problem.

[enigma 521]

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic." ―Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

 

 

It seems that way. Althought I don't remember if it was said in movies (I didn't watch them completely for a long time). If it wasn't, then it's easy. If it was, we have a problem.

 

 

 

The problem is solved by the EU. Check the Wookieepedia on the Ruusan Reformation.