Why SW has no chance in hell vs ST...

[the atom 0]

Actually based on all presented evidence, it goes like this: Sisko>(Picard>Vader>Kirk>Picard)>Archer>>>>>Janeway.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Sisko is a badass. You should see Chuck's video commentaries. He says the Defiant should be called "Sisko's Motherfucking Pimp Hand"

[Praeothmin 532]

 

 

 

Not possible...

[enigma 521]

Not possible...

 

Yet it happened.

[Khas 12,158]

Sisko is a badass. You should see Chuck's video commentaries. He says the Defiant should be called "Sisko's Motherfucking Pimp Hand"

 

 

 

You don't fuck with the Sisko!

[Tyralak 12,068]

Well yes of course, but the point is that Chee isn't just making shit up and lying to everybody, otherwise he wouldn't exactly be in charge anymore would he?

 

 

 

True. However you realize you're both right, don't you? Lucasfilm's canon policy and George's statements about the EU really do fit together. This is George's franchise. Period. He does with it what he wants. He lets Chee and others play in his sandbox, and produced what amounts to officially sanctioned fan fiction. However, when George wants to add something to his story, he does it. Simply put, EU writers are supposed to make sure their writing is in harmony with what George puts out. (They don't always do it, as we saw with the EP 2 ICS and others) however, George doesn't have to clear a damn thing with anyone. Whenever he decides to do revisions on the films (like the Special Editions and the Blu-Ray versions) or when new episodes of TCW are produced, they by default steamroll anything in their way. Ryloth is a great example. An EU writer showed Ryloth as tidally locked. Years later, TCW showed Ryloth as being a standard rotating planet. Guess which one wins? Which is why when someone is debating and they bring up an argument based entirely in the EU (especially dated or questionable EU sources) they had better back it up with G or T canon sources if they want to be taken seriously.

[Praeothmin 532]

Yet it happened.

 

 

 

Obviously a bad photoshop, you can see the cropping...

[Khas 12,158]

Like what StarWarsStarTrek once used to claim low weapons ranges for ST?

[the atom 0]

True. However you realize you're both right, don't you? Lucasfilm's canon policy and George's statements about the EU really do fit together. This is George's franchise. Period. He does with it what he wants. He lets Chee and others play in his sandbox, and produced what amounts to officially sanctioned fan fiction. However, when George wants to add something to his story, he does it. Simply put, EU writers are supposed to make sure their writing is in harmony with what George puts out. (They don't always do it, as we saw with the EP 2 ICS and others) however, George doesn't have to clear a damn thing with anyone. Whenever he decides to do revisions on the films (like the Special Editions and the Blu-Ray versions) or when new episodes of TCW are produced, they by default steamroll anything in their way. Ryloth is a great example. An EU writer showed Ryloth as tidally locked. Years later, TCW showed Ryloth as being a standard rotating planet. Guess which one wins?

 

 

 

Well yes, G-canon has always superseded lower canon. What else is new? What Picard is trying to say is that the EU is not canon at all, which is demonstrably false as we have multiple quotes from Lucasarts employees flat-out stating that it is.

 

 

 

Which is why when someone is debating and they bring up an argument based entirely in the EU (especially dated or questionable EU sources) they had better back it up with G or T canon sources if they want to be taken seriously.

 

 

 

 

That makes no sense at all. What if I'm making an argument regarding the New Republic, or Thrawn, or the Yuuzhan Vong? How is anybody supposed to get G-canon or T-canon information on any of these things?

[Tyralak 12,068]

Well yes, G-canon has always superseded lower canon. What else is new? What Picard is trying to say is that the EU is not canon at all, which is demonstrably false as we have multiple quotes from Lucasarts employees flat-out stating that it is.

 

 

 

OK, it's defiantly silly to claim that it's not canon. However, as we know, not all canon is created equal. A decent amount of things in the EU have been superseded by G and T canon sources. Really, the difference between G and T is minimal due to the fact that George is directly in charge of both. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to misunderstand the canon policy. They seem to think that in the EU, anything goes and is instantly enshrined as the gospel truth as long as there isn't a line or scene in the films or TCW that directly contradicts it. Which, by that reasoning, I could hypothetically write an EU novel mentioning that Vader is a closet cross-dresser who wears purple panties, and Hypermatter is made from the fur of fluffy bunnies. I can guarantee there isn't a scene or line in the films or TCW that says Vader ISN'T a crossdresser who wears purple panties, and that Hypermatter ISN'T made from the fur of fluffy bunnies. Does that make it so? If we stuck to the interpretation of the canon policy and hierarchy that some people have, it sure would be. Obviously, we have to make sure what is in an EU source we're using is actually SUPPORTED by G and T canon, not simply not contradicted by it.

 

 

 

That makes no sense at all. What if I'm making an argument regarding the New Republic, or Thrawn, or the Yuuzhan Vong? How is anybody supposed to get G-canon or T-canon information on any of these things?

 

 

 

Yeah, that's not exactly what I meant. Obviously there are novels dealing with the distant past and the future after the movies. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about EU sources that deal with the timeline and events depicted in the movies and TCW TV series. A person should really use caution when basing arguments solely on EU sources when the debate is centered around events covered in the films and TCW. Especially when the claims made are extraordinary or outlandish and have no basis in the films, or TCW. This is especially true since the era of The Clone Wars is being fleshed more and more on a weekly basis. And George and the writers he has working for him don't exactly pour over minutia in the EU to make sure they don't step on an EU writer's toes. He writes his story the way he wants. If it stomps all over something an EU author wrote, oh well. In short, the EU has some really fantastic novels, resources, etc. It does a great job of dealing with backstories, filling in the cracks, expanding the the story and so forth, and it's certainly part of the overall canon. However, it should really be kept in it's place. Unfortunately quite a few people have put EU sources on a pedestal far higher than they ought to be, which was really the point I was making.

[Khas 12,158]

And KirkSkywalker has reached new levels of dumb. He has claimed that phasers are graviton weapons, and that they do as much damage as an impact with a star, and that they can hit ships in hyperspace. Oh how I wish I was making this up:

 

I've already shown that if phasers can hit the ship in hyperspace, they can destroy it QED.

If you claim they can't, show evidence how phasers are any less powerful than the impact of a star or supernova.

 

That, and he's claiming that subspace and hyperspace are one and the same, when both are mentioned in both ST and SW, and are pretty much said to be different things.

[Tyralak 12,068]

And KirkSkywalker has reached new levels of dumb. He has claimed that phasers are graviton weapons, and that they do as much damage as an impact with a star, and that they can hit ships in hyperspace. Oh how I wish I was making this up:

 

Oh good lord. Phasers are NADION weapons, not graviton! This guy must be smoking the good shit.

[Khas 12,158]

That isn't the half of it. The guy honestly thinks that ST and SW are hard sci-fi.

[Khas 12,158]

Behold, a whole KSW thread (started by him under the name "MauriceWindows")! Just... read.

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2459

[Ali-Sama 5]