Delta flyer vrs Star destoyer

[Jason 27]

Again watch show shield not even second you have look very closely to see again 4 minute 27 seconds to about 4 minute and 29 seconds. Then see exposing happen little blow that point.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ&feature=player_embedded

[enigma 521]

I have lot of expirience from SDN, so I think I can handle it.

 

 

 

I've been around SDN since '03 and I tell can you that you can't handle him. He won't concede even if you dump a megaton of explicit proof on him.

[Jason 27]

Ordinary photon torpedoes are simply too big for Flyer, unless it carries only one or two pairs of these. We know there are micro-photon torpedoes, and standard photorps are 2 meters long, and in one or two instances torpedo casing served as burial coffin.

 

 

 

And we see in several instances that Star Wars shields, althought invisible, do stop physical impacts. In RotJ, fighter crashes into MonCal cruiser - no burn marks on ship, nothing. In RotS, Anakin has to down shield protecting hangar bays of Invisible Hand. In TESB, we see several asteroids exploding on ISD's hull - no damage, nothing.

 

 

 

While Flyer might be able to beam torpedo throught shields, historically, beaming throught unknown shielding type was more of hit-or-miss affair, with no assurance of success. Then again, its Borg tech might help, althought I don't recall she was ever fitted with Borg transporter. And Federation doesn't have subspace transporter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have lot of expirience from SDN, so I think I can handle it.

 

Accord G cannon star war shields not that strong if Star destroyer could not stop asteroid unlike star destroyer shield strong enough stop Delta flyer ramming though. Delta flyer has TetraburniumMy link hull can withstand presser and heat of gas giant to part hydrogen presser to liquid status. My link.

 

 

 

Delta flyer also has Parametallic hull planting My link

 

Toughest we can design space proble right now able take 23 time Earth atmosphere presser and temperature up 153 degrees. That made man made stuff.

[Khas 12,158]

Oh yeah, Jason? Then how come the Delta Flyer was destroyed by a few hits from a Borg cube? Or by a Galaxy-class starship in that alternate timeline where Voyager crashed?

[Jason 27]

Borg Cube bigger Deep Space Nine and photon torpedoes likely bigger as will. In Star Terk Dark Frontier the Delta flyer took beaten form photon torpedoes. If wish see watch video form 8 minute and 23 seconds to about 8 minute and 36 secounds

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBG5rKhdPH4&feature=related

 

 

 

As we can see Delta flyer took about 4 photon torpedoes Borg Queen ship. Delta flyer only almost lost Warp drive.

 

 

 

 

 

However Borg cube able to fire about 4 destroy the delta flyer with only 4 photon torpedoes.

 

If wish see evidence watch this video form 2 minute and 45 seconds to about 2 minute and 54 seconds.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqePw5ZYJaw&feature=related

 

 

 

The Galaxy class starship in timeless to much information how long short fire fight last for how powerful weapon were.

[Khas 12,158]

It was probably just a bog-standard GCS.

 

 

 

Also, does anyone get the feeling that this is going to turn into another doozy thread?

[Jason 27]

It was probably just a bog-standard GCS.

 

The Borg Cube that destroy first Delta flyer class shuttlecaft was hardly standard. It was Borg tactical cube much more heavy armed and better shield normal Borg cub. weapon armed no way of knowing normal Borg cube armed with them.

 

My link

 

 

 

That hardly show evidence that Delta flyer just ram though star destroyer shields.

[Khas 12,158]

I meant the USS Challenger, Geordi's ship, which destroyed the Delta Flyer in "Timeles" was a bog-standard Galaxy-class starship. This has nothing to do with the Borg.

[Picard578 0]

I have calculated ISD's shields at 100-200 megatons, and heavy turbolasers at 1.5 megatons. Full-sized photon torpedoes are anywhere between 200 megatons ("Rise") to 5 gigatons. Micro-torpedoes might be anywhere from 2 to 625 megatons, based on possible size difference.

 

 

 

And I don't believe ISD is going to be able to hit Delta Flyer with anything other than light turbolasers, so it comes down to issue if TIE bombers can destroy Flyer.

 

 

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/photon_torpedoes.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/phasers.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields/deflector_shields.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/propulsion/impulse_drive.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/materials.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/starship_tactical_systems/turbolasers.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/starship_tactical_systems/proton_torpedoes.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/power_production/power.html

 

http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/materials/star_wars_materials.html

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I've been around SDN since '03 and I tell can you that you can't handle him. He won't concede even if you dump a megaton of explicit proof on him.

 

 

 

I know that - I have been on SDN myself. But if he doesn't concede, I'll just keep dumping proof on him. I'm not afraid of repeating myself thousand times over, or arguing some particular issue for months. Then he might just become bored enough to actually provide new argument

[Khas 12,158]

Oh no. Not Jason. He once got a 20-page-thread going, and didn't concede once.

[enigma 521]

Oh no. Not Jason. He once got a 20-page-thread going, and didn't concede once.

 

 

 

He doesn't know the meaning to the word concede. I doubt he knows the meaning to most words, let alone spell them.

[Jason 27]

I meant the USS Challenger, Geordi's ship, which destroyed the Delta Flyer in "Timeless" was a bog-standard Galaxy-class starship. This has nothing to do with the Borg.

 

USS Challenger Geordi's ship stander shields and weapons for Galaxy class starship 3390 when it destroy a Delta class shuttlecaft. However problem example is fact we do not know powerful it was. USS Prometheus send Romulan warships in flames easily. While unlikley as strong Galaxy class X starship it very possible as stronger Prometheus class starship maybe even little powerful. After seeing a Nova class starship send three Negh'var warship blaze in 4004. It not be impossible the USS Challenger morew powerful Promethus class starship. My link

 

 

 

It possible Delta flyer could armed full size photon torpedoes it is possible Delta flyer stored all it photon torpedoes and other weapon system some kind transporter device. So Delta armed full size photon torpedoes long fit launcher in there.

[Jason 27]

Let say for arguement sake the Delta flyer just ram thought the star destroyer shields I am wrong. Still left problem Delta flyer terrible at hitting smell targets. Delta flyer also effective EW the star destroyer shooting dark. It possible Delta flyer just hold it distance to make that star destroyer shooting in the dark. Perhaps using holographic decoys or probes as decoys to make star destroyer fire weapon were it is not.

[Khas 12,158]

 

 

 

HOW MANY TIMES DOES IT HAVE TO BE SAID?!?!? SHORT OF A FULL SQUADRON OF THEM, THERE'S NO WAY A DELTA FLYER COULD TAKE DOWN AN IMPERIAL STAR DESTROYER!!!!!! JUST BECAUSE THE BRIDGE IS DESTROYED DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE REST OF THE ISD IS!!!! THE ONLY REASON THAT THE EXECUTOR SPUN OUT OF CONTROL AFTER IT'S BRIDGE EXPLODED IS BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE DEATH STAR'S GRAVITY WELL!!!!!!!!!

[Picard578 0]

Only way Delta Flyer could take out ISD is by packing it with capital-grade photon torpedoes and parking it on ISD's hull before detonating torpedoes.

 

 

 

Now, destroying bridge will kill command crew, but Imperial starships are modeled after WW2 ships, which means that they probably have secondary command center, probably somewhere inside hull or lower superstructure (blocky part on which command tower is located), which means that ship will be able to continue operating more-or-less normally.

 

 

 

/III - command bridge

 

/--I_____

 

_________I______ - lower superstructure, upper level

 

________________I - lower superstructure, lower level

[Jason 27]

In practice two A wing able destroy Star destroyer bridge. Delta flyer have knock bridge shield beam few photon torpedoes into the main engine room bag there goes the star destroyer.

[Airlocke 12,014]

In practice, two A wings would be able to destroy a Star destroyer's bridge. Delta flyer would only have to knock bridge and shields out, then beam a few photon torpedoes into the main engine room. Bang! there goes the star destroyer.

 

 

 

I hope you do not mind, Jason. I made you message a little more understandable, for the benefit of the other members.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, to reply to your utter idiocy. Yes, if the delta flier could knock out the bridge, and thus the shield controls, they should be able to beam a few photons into the engine room. Assuming they can locate the main engine room with their sensors. This is actually a very sound strategy. But I think I might have missed something.

 

 

 

When and how did the Delta flier destroy the bridge in this scenario? If I were to draw parralells to your A-wing reference, then I assume that it destroyed the bridge by somehow getting through the shields and crashing into it? If it destroyed itself in order to take out the bridge, then how did it beam in the photon torpedoes?

[Jason 27]

I hope you do not mind, Jason. I made you message a little more understandable, for the benefit of the other members.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, to reply to your utter idiocy. Yes, if the delta flier could knock out the bridge, and thus the shield controls, they should be able to beam a few photons into the engine room. Assuming they can locate the main engine room with their sensors. This is actually a very sound strategy. But I think I might have missed something.

 

 

 

When and how did the Delta flier destroy the bridge in this scenario? If I were to draw parralells to your A-wing reference, then I assume that it destroyed the bridge by somehow getting through the shields and crashing into it? If it destroyed itself in order to take out the bridge, then how did it beam in the photon torpedoes?

 

 

 

If wish see two A wing knock Bridge defector shields watch video 6 minute and 19 seconds to about 6 minute and 27 seconds.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ

 

See Two A wing blow some part star destroyer up. A Delta flyer deliver lot heavy punch then two A wing can or maybe more Squadron.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

If wish see two A wing knock Bridge defector shields watch video 6 minute and 19 seconds to about 6 minute and 27 seconds.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ

 

See Two A wing blow some part star destroyer up. A Delta flyer deliver lot heavy punch then two A wing can or maybe more Squadron.

The A wings didn't bring down the SSDs shields, concentrated fire from the Rebel fleet did. The delta flyer isnt any better than an X wing

[Questor 501]

The A wings didn't bring down the SSDs shields, concentrated fire from the Rebel fleet did. The delta flyer isnt any better than an X wing

 

 

 

Skooj, Jason doesn't understand sequencing. He also doesn't understand that films are unable to depict simultanious events, and some must occaisionally resort to time travel to tell a story properly. Jason needs a very simple narative structure.

 

 

 

I would suggest the Harry Potter books, and others of that ilk. Complex stories, simple narrative structure, and they use it well.

[enigma 521]

Skooj, Jason doesn't understand sequencing. He also doesn't understand that films are unable to depict simultanious events, and some must occaisionally resort to time travel to tell a story properly. Jason needs a very simple narative structure.

 

 

 

I would suggest the Harry Potter books, and others of that ilk. Complex stories, simple narrative structure, and they use it well.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason cannot comprehend any story that is more complex than any of Dr.Seuss' books.

[Picard578 0]

Either way, Delta Flyer probably won't be able to destroy ISD unless it has full-fledged starship as support (which then comes down to "starship vs ISD").

[Questor 501]

Arguing with Jason (or with anyone) is impossible unless one establishes a common mode of analysis (unless - of course - you are arguing about the mode of analysis).

 

 

 

I've stopped caring about the meat of his arguments, but it should be pointed out that a common thread for him is that he misunderstands editing in a movie and looks at events as being sequential even when they don't have to be.

 

 

 

You - on the other hand - have not committed any gross violations of intelligent thought, and so I have no real conflict with you. I don't care about the debate per se any more, and have reeduced my participation in sites related to it drastically.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Arguing with Jason (or with anyone) is impossible unless one establishes a common mode of analysis (unless - of course - you are arguing about the mode of analysis).

This. I generally don't even bother anymore, other than to point out others stupidity. By this point in time everyone's mind is made up and they are all unwilling or unable to comprehend the evidence that doesnt support their view. This applies to all versus debates in general