Echo Papa 607 drone vrs Vader

[enigma 521]

Well, the title doesn't say how many Drones, and I can't decipher Jasonese that well, so I imagined he was going against many Drones...

 

 

 

And while the Drones were getting beaten by the ground crew, there were more than one of them, and they had many weapons, and they had more and more difficulty defeating the Drones...

 

 

 

And again, while we know Vader has good TK, we've never seen, even in TCW, Force users use TK against shielded droids, even when it would have been useful...

 

Like, for example, while the droids are rolling towards the Jedi, just before they stop, activate their shield, and start firing, a process that alwasy takes a good second or two, more than enough time for TK use, no?

 

 

 

So while Vader effortlessly destroys the first Drone, the subsequent ones become more and more dangerous and hard to destroy, until either they win, or as you said, Vader finds the control room...

 

 

 

He said drone hence one. In the case of AoF, a redshirt could have kill shot the first drone. For Vader, he doesn't have to do much. But yeah, it gets harder further on. It kinda helps Vader that there's a 12 min window for each drone, depending where he crash lands.

 

 

 

But as per OP, Vader wins.

[Tyralak 12,068]

But as far as the whole Echo Papa system? Vader loses.

[Praeothmin 532]

But as far as the whole Echo Papa system? Vader loses.

 

 

 

Yes, but how many of these Drones does he crush before he gets "done in", and also, as Enigma said, if Vader succeeds in finding the control room, he may survive.

 

 

 

Ok, scary thought: Vader uses the Echo Papa system to augment his armor... shudder...

[enigma 521]

Yes, but how many of these Drones does he crush before he gets "done in", and also, as Enigma said, if Vader succeeds in finding the control room, he may survive.

 

 

 

Ok, scary thought: Vader uses the Echo Papa system to augment his armor... shudder...

 

 

 

Worse, imagine the ISDs integrating the EP system.

[Praeothmin 532]

Worse, imagine the ISDs integrating the EP system.

 

 

 

Ok, imagine the Death Star with that system...

 

 

 

"We are the Empire. Resistance is futile. We will add your technological and biological components to our collective."

[enigma 521]

Ok, imagine the Death Star with that system...

 

 

 

"We are the Empire. Resistance is futile. We will add your technological and biological components to our collective."

 

 

 

"Your planet will be assimilated."

[Praeothmin 532]

"Your planet will be ass-raped."

 

 

 

Corrected it for ya...

[Tyralak 12,068]

That's provided they could even figure the tech out. Let's be honest, technology in the SW universe has been more or less stagnant for thousands of years. Not to mention, that they don't seem to get the grasp of innovation. Their approach is one of scaling up existing tech instead of developing new methods. For example, let's say the problem is you need a vehicle with more power. The SW approach is to build a bigger chassis and put 4 of the existing engines in. One for each wheel. The ST approach is to design a more powerful engine using a different method.

[Praeothmin 532]

Mayyyybe, but both methods work...

[Questor 501]

That's provided they could even figure the tech out. Let's be honest, technology in the SW universe has been more or less stagnant for thousands of years. Not to mention, that they don't seem to get the grasp of innovation. Their approach is one of scaling up existing tech instead of developing new methods. For example, let's say the problem is you need a vehicle with more power. The SW approach is to build a bigger chassis and put 4 of the existing engines in. One for each wheel. The ST approach is to design a more powerful engine using a different method.

 

 

 

The B-36 laughs at you.

[Khas 12,158]

Yes, but will we be using that 25 millennia from now?

[enigma 521]

That's provided they could even figure the tech out. Let's be honest, technology in the SW universe has been more or less stagnant for thousands of years. Not to mention, that they don't seem to get the grasp of innovation. Their approach is one of scaling up existing tech instead of developing new methods. For example, let's say the problem is you need a vehicle with more power. The SW approach is to build a bigger chassis and put 4 of the existing engines in. One for each wheel. The ST approach is to design a more powerful engine using a different method.

 

 

 

 

 

The other way of thinking is that they've pretty reached the pinnacle of their technology and the only thing needed was to constantly tweak it and find new applications for it until such time someone comes up with a brand new breakthrough research that will enable the scientists and inventors to explore it and use it.

 

 

 

The Federation and most other races and interstellar powers are fairly new in comparison. With the exception of a handful of races, the majority use warp propulsion for FTL much like the vast majority in SW uses hyperdrive.

 

 

 

Types of weaponry used onboard starships and also for infantry is a lot more varied in SW than in ST. ISDs carry not only turbolasers but also I believe ion cannons and blaster cannons. I think they also have either missile launchers or torpedo launchers or both. Most ST races use at most two (AFAIK), a type of beam weapon and a torpedo launcher. Then again, with a variety of alien species plus multi-thousands of years of research and use has enabled SW to use a wide variety of weapons.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that it looks bad on ST but it shows that the races are still young and still have a while to go.

 

 

 

Same with ground based weapons. SW galaxy is practically a non-stop slugfest of galactic powers. There would be no surprise that they'd end up with a variety of weapons to better kill each other with.

 

 

 

ST on the other hand went from multiple weapon types from the 20th\21st century (Earth) to at least two (phaser pistol and rifle) by the 23rd century. Only just now if you use the STO soft canon then at least the Feds are starting to use multiple types of weaponry.

 

 

 

It is easy to say that ST is creating new technology at a rapid rate when they are basically still in diapers. We don't know the current status of the SW galaxy if we fast forward to ST's 24th century. Maybe they'll still be the same, or they are a lot more advanced or possibly the whole galaxy is a burned out husk due to countless wars.

 

 

 

Nevertheless, I personally think that if the EP607 system was brought into SW, they'd have an easier time reverse engineer it because of countless thousands of years of experience in research and development especially considering the multitude of races they can draw from.

 

 

 

In ST, EP607 is just another lost tech device. Really, if they just rubbed two brain cells together and put a lot of effort into reverse engineering all of the lost tech, the Federation would be a power to be reckoned with.

[Questor 501]

Yes, but will we be using that 25 millennia from now?

 

 

 

That's not the point. It's an example of an aircraft that got so large that the only option to build it was to strap a total of TEN engines (6 Propelers, 4 Jets) on to it to make it fly. And it's descendant many years later had EIGHT JET ENGINES.

[Praeothmin 532]

The other way of thinking is that they've pretty reached the pinnacle of their technology and the only thing needed was to constantly tweak it and find new applications for it until such time someone comes up with a brand new breakthrough research that will enable the scientists and inventors to explore it and use it.

 

 

 

The Federation and most other races and interstellar powers are fairly new in comparison. With the exception of a handful of races, the majority use warp propulsion for FTL much like the vast majority in SW uses hyperdrive.

 

 

 

Types of weaponry used onboard starships and also for infantry is a lot more varied in SW than in ST. ISDs carry not only turbolasers but also I believe ion cannons and blaster cannons. I think they also have either missile launchers or torpedo launchers or both. Most ST races use at most two (AFAIK), a type of beam weapon and a torpedo launcher. Then again, with a variety of alien species plus multi-thousands of years of research and use has enabled SW to use a wide variety of weapons.

 

 

 

I'm not saying that it looks bad on ST but it shows that the races are still young and still have a while to go.

 

 

 

Same with ground based weapons. SW galaxy is practically a non-stop slugfest of galactic powers. There would be no surprise that they'd end up with a variety of weapons to better kill each other with.

 

 

 

ST on the other hand went from multiple weapon types from the 20th\21st century (Earth) to at least two (phaser pistol and rifle) by the 23rd century. Only just now if you use the STO soft canon then at least the Feds are starting to use multiple types of weaponry.

 

 

 

It is easy to say that ST is creating new technology at a rapid rate when they are basically still in diapers. We don't know the current status of the SW galaxy if we fast forward to ST's 24th century. Maybe they'll still be the same, or they are a lot more advanced or possibly the whole galaxy is a burned out husk due to countless wars.

 

 

 

Nevertheless, I personally think that if the EP607 system was brought into SW, they'd have an easier time reverse engineer it because of countless thousands of years of experience in research and development especially considering the multitude of races they can draw from.

 

 

 

In ST, EP607 is just another lost tech device. Really, if they just rubbed two brain cells together and put a lot of effort into reverse engineering all of the lost tech, the Federation would be a power to be reckoned with.

 

 

 

I like that way of thinking... PosRep for you...

[enigma 521]

I like that way of thinking... PosRep for you...

 

Posrep for you too. I think you've got 400 right now.

[Questor 501]

In ST, EP607 is just another lost tech device. Really, if they just rubbed two brain cells together and put a lot of effort into reverse engineering all of the lost tech, the Federation would be a power to be reckoned with.

 

 

 

Yeah, but when's the last time - other than Sisko & the Defiant (or U.S.S. BSMFPH if you prefer) - that the Fed's even HAD two brain cells to rub together with regards to weapons?

 

 

 

Seriously, the minute they declared war with the Klingons, they should have sent someone to drag Sisko back to Utopia Planitia. Although - come to think of it - given the lead times involved in the larger starships, there's every chance that Sisko helped design the Sovereign, Akira, Steamrunner, Sabre, and Norway classes. The Intrepid class doesn't seem like his style, and neither does the Nova class. If I had to choose which ones were most likely his, I'd go with Defiant, Sovereign, Akira, and Sabre (noticing the more martial theme in the class ship's names.)

[Mith 0]

Droidekas = Echo Papa 607 drone?

 

 

 

In practicality? Yes. The Echo Papa 607, for all of its advantages and abilities, seemed to be unable to hit main characters. It in fact, had downright terrible aim. I'd want to write it off as just character shields, but the thing seemed to really suck at hitting people.

 

 

 

It did at least come close.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that the droidekas were quite formidable because once deployed they make it vary hard for a Force user to use his abilities at the same time deflecting the onslaught of blaster fire. But they were taken down by Force users.

 

 

 

While using the force would make Vader more formidable than your average joe against the Echo Papa, the fact of the matter is simply making more drones and launching more than one at once would easily solve this problem.

 

 

 

If Vader was to replace the E-D in the "Arsenal of Freedom", or even if not, the first drone would not have any intel on Vader and what he could do. Hell the first drone Riker and co encountered didn't even have shields and was easily taken out by one shot from a phaser. Vader could easily use the Force on it as he had done many times with the various battle droids.

 

 

 

...So what? The first drone is meant to gather intel on the target, not fight it. That's why when it first met Riker it projected itself as someone he knew from the missing ship. Unfortunately for the Echo Papa, the Enterprise could tell that the target wasn't human and so it didn't work out so well for it.

 

 

 

Though TK is known in ST it is not common, nor should we expect that the drone would have the kind of defenses against TK.

 

 

 

It's common enough that Quark mentioned in 'The Jem'Hadar' that he's seen TK inhibitors that were much bulkier than the ones that the Vorta had worn (which wasn't one at all), suggesting that they could in fact, be made and could be made portable. While this itself isn't evidence that the Echo Papa could actively halt Vader's TK, it is worth correcting you on.

 

 

 

But the drone has another problem. Even if it was winning the fight against Vader, Vader could still win by unleashing the Force Scream. Silly but he has used it at least twice with devastating results.

 

 

 

Please, please God tell me you're joking.

 

 

 

Vader has faced more dangerous opponents than an Echo Papa 607 drone and won. Now if the drone was a fourth or later generation then yeah I can possibly see it win.

 

 

 

The Echo Papa 607 isn't a drone--Jason just sucks at basic English. The Echo Papa 607 is a unit that produces drones, including a larger version capable of attacking and destroying a ship.

 

 

 

Then again Jason in his infinitesimal wisdom decided that Vader should fight only one.

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't think Jason intended that to be the case--or at least not the case of him fighting the first, weakest one. That seems a bit odd and silly with his usual threads.

[enigma 521]

In practicality? Yes. The Echo Papa 607, for all of its advantages and abilities, seemed to be unable to hit main characters. It in fact, had downright terrible aim. I'd want to write it off as just character shields, but the thing seemed to really suck at hitting people.

 

 

 

It did at least come close.

 

 

 

E-D and the crew on board had character shielding but that didn't stop a cloaked drone from nearly destroying it.

 

 

 

While using the force would make Vader more formidable than your average joe against the Echo Papa, the fact of the matter is simply making more drones and launching more than one at once would easily solve this problem.

 

 

 

The Echo Papa 607 was never shown to launch more than one at a particular target at a time. True it fired two in short order but that was against two targets, the away team and the E-D. Launching stronger and stronger successive drones will inevitably kill Vader.

 

 

 

...So what? The first drone is meant to gather intel on the target, not fight it. That's why when it first met Riker it projected itself as someone he knew from the missing ship. Unfortunately for the Echo Papa, the Enterprise could tell that the target wasn't human and so it didn't work out so well for it.

Yet it was armed was it not? Every drone gathered intel or else they'd never have adapted to the weapons\tactics.

 

 

 

It's common enough that Quark mentioned in 'The Jem'Hadar' that he's seen TK inhibitors that were much bulkier than the ones that the Vorta had worn (which wasn't one at all), suggesting that they could in fact, be made and could be made portable. While this itself isn't evidence that the Echo Papa could actively halt Vader's TK, it is worth correcting you on.

 

 

 

I stand corrected. But what you have stated would only work if the drone could get some sort of collar on him. Other than that, while the drone *may* have knowledge of TK (if it encountered such people, then again going by memory, the planet doesn't seem to be pocked with destroyed ships of countless races the EP607 destroyed. ), how to counter it is different.

 

 

 

TK suppressor is not the same as a TK shield. Then again a bog standard force field is basically a TK shield.

 

 

 

If Vader cannot grab the shielded drone (I do not see how he can't considering the small size of the drone), he could just use the environment to smash the drone to bits. *shrugs*

 

 

 

 

 

Please, please God tell me you're joking.

 

No joke. Vader did a smaller version of the Force Scream in the end of RotS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Echo Papa 607 isn't a drone--Jason just sucks at basic English. The Echo Papa 607 is a unit that produces drones, including a larger version capable of attacking and destroying a ship.

 

 

 

Saying EP607 drone is to identify what the drone belonged to. I stated the drone to be a EP607 drone because that is what it was, a drone belonging to Echo Papa 607. I know the EP607 itself isn't a drone. Jason sucks more than basic English. He sucks at debating, thinking, reasoning, existing, etc...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't think Jason intended that to be the case--or at least not the case of him fighting the first' date=' weakest one. That seems a bit odd and silly with his usual threads.

 

[/quote']

 

 

 

He is odd and silly. He's never had a problem before to pluralize, so it should not have been a problem here.

[T'lonak 500]

I agree with most of what you said here... but Force Scream is odd and silly. It's barely referenced, and I would bet it's never actually mentioned by name anywhere. It's just a random Force Power that someone cooked up. The only interesting one was Jorus C'baoth, and he did something that I've seen other fictional villains do for dramatic reasons.

[Tyralak 12,068]

I agree with most of what you said here... but Force Scream is odd and silly. It's barely referenced' date=' and I would bet it's never actually mentioned by name anywhere. It's just a random Force Power that someone cooked up. The only interesting one was Jorus C'baoth, and he did something that I've seen other fictional villains do for dramatic reasons. [/quote']

 

I wonder if the "Force Fart" is referenced in any EU material. I'm sure KJA wrote about it somewhere....

[Khas 12,158]

No sign of it on Wookieepedia.

[enigma 521]

Force Scream is the name given to a Sith or Dark Jedi that channels his\her rage as a scream through the Force. Wookieepedia has several sources listing the effects of a Force Scream even if it wasn't mentioned by name.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Force Scream is the name given to a Sith or Dark Jedi that channels his\her rage as a scream through the Force. Wookieepedia has several sources listing the effects of a Force Scream even if it wasn't mentioned by name.

 

You mean like this?

[enigma 521]

It is an involuntary reaction when they are in a desperate situation. AFAIK, there is no specific target from the FS, the surrounding area gets thoroughly trashed and at the high end could be felt through the Force from light years away.