Star Trek XII Analysis Thread (SPOILERS!!)

[Tyralak 12,068]

I just saw the movie this evening, and I have quite a bit to say about it. This thread is for those who have seen the movie, or people who don't mind spoilers. Once again, THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS!!!!

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[Tyralak 12,068]

OK. First, let me say that the cinematography and CGI was truly amazing. I saw it in 3D at the IMAX. The sound was fantastic, and the 3D was great without being overpowering. That being said, I'm going to have to watch it several more times to get all the details and nuances due to the pure sensory overload.

The actors have certainly matured since the previous film. They seemed to have their roles a bit better in mind. Many people objected to the love story between Spock and Uhura as being very un-Spocklike. I disagree. Spock has always had to struggle with his Human side vs. his Vulcan side. It was part and parcel of his character. It always has been. In the last film, the incursion of Nero caused enough disruption, that his life took different priorities. He never was able to develop in the peaceful atmosphere that his counterpart in the Prime Universe did. Thus, he had less chance to master his struggle. The complete loss of control after Kirk's "death" was quite interesting. I could actually see him doing this in the Prime Universe, had the circumstances been right.

Kirk was spot on, and when you really think about it, his unrestrained side had been tempered in the Prime Universe because of the influence of his father. He was deprived of this influence in the Alternate Universe, so his chaotic side was given more free reign, but he was still the same Kirk at the core.

Checkov was still comic relief, but then he always was. Be honest.

Sulu really got to shine a bit more, and I could see many of his qualities from the Prime Universe show up in his character. Especially the scene where he threatened John Harrison. He became a bit of a badass.

Bones was Bones. Spot on, just as he was in the last film.

I was slightly disappointed with the treatment they game Mr. Scott's character. I felt they didn't take him as seriously as they did in TOS. That being said, he was still the genius we all know and love.

 

Khan. Why Abrams felt he needed to bring Khan into this one, I don't know. I so wanted this film to not have Khan in it. However, the treatment he gave him was very good. In fact, I felt that he mirrored the character in the Greg Cox novels "The Eugenics Wars" very well. If any books should be made canon, it's those. We got to see a lot more of his motivations. He was less of a two dimensional cardboard character than we saw in TOS and TWoK. I really think it would have been a more interesting twist had they make Khan a good guy, and had him work together with the Enterprise then become part of Starfleet later on. Having two sets of villains was interesting, but too predictable. Plus the reactor scene with Spock and Kirk reversed, and Spock yelling KHHHHAAAANNNNNN!!!! was really unnecessary and made me cringe. They should have left that out. Srsly, Abrams. What the hell were you thinking? However, I must say they explained rather well why he was where he was and why. Nero's incursion into this universe really did cause a great deal of upset. Starfleet became much more militaristic, their ships were far bigger and more powerful. Their weapons much more advanced, and their drive systems were wicked fast. They took Mr. Scott's Transwarp beaming technology and created Transwarp drives which rivaled anything we saw in TNG. Because of this, Section 31 became bolder and explored further into the galaxy where they happened upon Khan and his fellow supermen. Interestingly enough, in the conversation with Admiral Marcus, we see models of Starfleet ships on a shelf, and the NX-01 was among them.

 

Speaking of technology, the accuracy of warp drives was amazing. The Vengeance came out of warp probably 100 meters from the Enterprise to a dead stop. Impressive. The toughness of the ships was also amazing. The Vengeance survived a re-entry after having taken a lot of damage, looking roughly the same as it did in space.

Many people say of the Alternate Universe that there is too much emphasis on action. That this isn't what Star Trek was all about. We have to remember, that just like in the Mirror Universe, the reality and priorities of this universe are very different. In the Mirror Universe, the Terran Empire was reacting to threats from aggressive powers in the area. This affected their mindset much more than we saw in the Prime Universe. The same with the Alternate Universe, but to a lesser degree. Starfleet still had the same focus, but they had different realities to deal with. It makes sense when you stop and think about it. 

 

In short, Star Trek has never stayed the same. Every series had a different theme and feel to it. TOS was frontier exploration. Cowboy diplomacy, and fly by the seat of your pants. TNG was exploration of the human spirit, diplomacy, and a real fleshing out of the Federation. DS9 was a war series, plain and simple showing life on the front lines. VOY was a Star Trek version of "Lost in Space" showing a ship and crew making the best of a hopeless situation. ENT showed Starfleet in its infancy with all the struggles of standing on your own two feet in the galactic community.

I feel that this film stays with the grand tradition of Trek, adapting to the times. The Alternate Universe is a great way to explore some of the "What if" scenarios that we may have thought of.

Now, being that Abrams has apparently left the Trek franchise entirely, it will be interesting to see if the next director continues in the Alternate Universe, or returns to stories in the Prime Universe. There is no doubt that any future Trek series will be set in the Prime Universe due to licensing issues.

 

I LOVED the fact that Nimoy was in this film as well. It was a very pleasant surprise, and added to the connection between the Prime Universe and the Alternate Universe.

In conclusion, I think it was a great film, and one that I will watch multiple times when it comes out on Blu-Ray. Abrams certainly isn't perfect with his films, and some things he does makes me squirm in my seat, but I feel that the hate directed at him is more than he deserves. After all, Insurrection and UPN's horrible business decisions regarding cancelling ENT almost killed Trek. Abrams brought it back, and for that he should be appreciated.

[Afishymeadow 534]

WARNING:

SPOILERS DISCUSSED

Thanks Tyralak. I hope to catch STiD soon, maybe midweek, preferably the first show of the day. NX-01 has seen STiD too. I wonder what Admiral Marcus Prime was like?

Anyone in the movie notice Admiral Marcus is a dead ringer for John Frederick Paxton? And Khan Harrison the spitting image of early 21st Century UK detective Sherlock Holmes?

[Afishymeadow 534]

Ben Cross could play ALL the roles the late Mark Lenard did in the Abramsverse.

[scvn2812 504]

Notable is that this movie offers the first instance of a ship weapon, albeit a heavy shuttle sized one, hitting ground. The result makes me suspect even more that if there is any starship grade combat in atmosphere in Star Wars ep 7, it is not likely to be all that more impressive than what the Clone Wars has offered.

 

Vengeance did a swan dive comparable to the Enterprise-D and took all the heat and kinetic effects that would imply yet flying over a volcano about to erupt is bad juju for shuttles and even the Big-E herself. Granted, this was likely just the tip of a super volcano if it really could wipe out the tribal civilization on the planet and most life. So all in all, not a very helpful movie for trying to figure out what the new old girl can handle.

 

Space ICBMs are a thing now though. First time I can recall an autonomous weapon with interstellar range being considered in any franchise aside from Dreadnaught.

[Khas 12,158]

You also have to remember that the USS Vengeance was also heavily damaged at the time.  The fact that it hit at such a steep angle, and didn't break apart until after hitting the ground shows it has better endurance than the Invisible Hand when it comes to re-entries.

[scvn2812 504]

All that shows is that Hand had damage to key structural members from her fight with Gualara and Vengeance didn't take enough damage to be structurally compromised. Enterprise was at risk of not just crashing but burning up. Although I suspect the risk might have been to the crew rather than the ship as a whole unless she had taken such a severe beating that it was just crossed fingers and duct tape holding her together.

[Khas 12,158]

But as I said, the Vengeance came in at a much steeper angle than the Invisible Hand.  Ever see Apollo 13?  Come in too steep in re-entry, and you'll burn up.  Too shallow, and you richochet off the atmosphere.  As for the damage, remember, the explosions on the Vengeance were internal, and therefore, far more damaging to the ship.  The Vengeance fell straight down.  The Invisible Hand came in at a much shallower angle, and was burning up and breaking apart.

[Vince 520]

You also have to remember that the USS Vengeance was also heavily damaged at the time.  The fact that it hit at such a steep angle, and didn't break apart until after hitting the ground shows it has better endurance than the Invisible Hand when it comes to re-entries.

Isn't the red glow as the hull is heated something that happens regardless of if the ship is taken damage or not? 

 

To be honest it doesn't look like Invisible Hand is suffering to badly from mere atmospheric entry, considering it was pock-marked with 60 meter holes and was cut in two. Jedi Crash offers another example of a heavily damaged ship with failing power in systems crashing into a planet. 

[Jason 27]

More importantly it show give lot more information about Section 31 showing have ships and so on.

[Afishymeadow 534]

What of the Abramsverse counterpart of Sloan when the time comes?

[Afishymeadow 534]

I FINALLY caught STiD today!

It wasn't half-bad. It was better than the first one. It has its pros & Khans (pun FULLY intended ).

If any'all haven't caught it yet, go & catch it. It won't be playin' for much longer ... ANYWHERE!

[Afishymeadow 534]

Some SOUR GRIPES of mine:

* John Harrison didn't HAVE TO BE nuKhan! There were 71 other superpeople he could've, and should've been one of. He was gimmicKHAN!

Or call him SherlocKHAN if you're an aficionado of Cucumberbatch's nuHolmes.

* The Marcuses being the Marcuses was another really unnecessary TWOK tie-in gimmick. They could've, & should've been, ANYBODY else. The Dehners, Ruth & her father, the Kodoses (Karidians), Entc Ent al.

My pick here would be the Kodoses. Kodos becoming a Starfleet Admiral (Robocop) in the Abramsverse, with daughter Lenore a Starfleet scientist (Alice Eve). Kodos & daughter turning out SO DIFFERENTLY would be another indicator of the great changes & divergence from the Roddenberryverse, in addition to Nemo having blown up Vulcan real good!

* A gripe here about a GRIPE! Khan Harrison's transwarp beaming from Fisherman's Worf to Kronos. So frogging what! Clearly Scotty Prime most likely studied Iconian Gateway technology, & had a decent understanding of it. No shock section dirty one would use it, &/or their agents &/or employees (SherlocKHAN).

* That's it for NOW! Enough of my mouth. Y'all'd give real money if I'd shut up!

[Praeothmin 532]

Loved the movie, basically my feelings mirror those of Tyralak...

Can't wait for te blue ray on my brand new 60In plasma screen...

[Tyralak 12,068]

Praeothmin! It's great to have you back!

[Praeothmin 532]

Thanks, though I won't be here too often, will depend on life, the universe, and all of that...