UFP vs. Empire vs. Terran Dominion - Ground Combat

[Praeothmin 532]

Which still shows that they were indeed spending a shit load of money on military.

 

Perhaps the 5 million additional Clones would have bankrupped the Republic, because of all the ships it was building , and the new "super-duper-don't-tell-anyone-or-we'll-kill-you" project of building a planet-killing weapon was already taxing the Republic's economy, especially in times of war where relief efforts would also incur high spendings for the Republic...

[Khas 12,158]

And all the superweapons built during the Empire's time, or by the Imperial Remnant didn't do this... how?

 

 

 

And those efforts must be REALLY taxing to the Republic's economy, considering that 5 million clones is only one fifteenth of the total number of deaths in WW2.

[Praeothmin 532]

Khas, first, TCW is lower Canon from the movies only, not the EU, so in the movies, we had two Canon super weapons built by the Empire, and they seemed to have enough money left over to also built 17km super ships.

 

In between the PT, we have TCW which states that, at the time of the Clone Wars, 5 million more Clones could bankrupt the republic.

 

Both the DSs are facts.

 

The bankrupcy is an opinion by a Senator who knows, so it holds some weight, and is stated as a fact in universe.

 

We need to find a way to reconcile them, while not ignoring either...

[Jason 27]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both these starfleet combat uniforms look took a beaten. In practice during battle at The Siege of AR-558" we did not see any new UFP soldier that combat uniforms get killed by Dominion polaron rifles.Every soldier that died form that weapon down wear stander starfleet uniforms.

[Questor 501]

Overridden by the fact that the Republic was nearly bankrupted by the purchase of 5 million clones.

 

 

 

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

 

 

I'll bet the Republic had a very different taxation and revenue structure than the Empire did. Not to mention revolution is a decent way to change entitlement programs.

[Questor 501]

And those efforts must be REALLY taxing to the Republic's economy, considering that 5 million clones is only one fifteenth of the total number of deaths in WW2.

 

 

 

A cite for 35 million combat casualties, please? (It's got to be combat casualties, it's too low to be general casualties)

[Questor 501]

Says you!

 

 

 

Seriously, though, the reason why I think the uniform is more than just a "thicker uniform" to keep warm is because of all the times we saw Starfleet officers go in hotter or colder environments while wearing only the standard uniform.

 

So I surmised that the thicker lining was useful to add many pockets and pouches a soldier would need on a mission...

 

 

 

Except we don't see any pockets or pouches, or web gear, or load bearing equipment. Also, we have seen Starfleet uniforms that have a lot of pockets and were warmer...

 

 

 

Back when Starfleet wasn't space-hippies obsessed with being "non-violent."

 

 

 

KIRK WORE THEM!!!!!!! They even had holsters!

 

 

 

[Questor 501]

But Khas, this came from a cartoon, and even thought the cartoon is higher canon, it's invalid because it is a kiddie show, unlike the ICS or any other SW books which are kiddie books, but rank higher in validity but lower in canon...

 

 

 

It's invalid because it's idiotic. If trekkies can demand that I ignore it when Data/Janeway/Geordi/Riker/Wesley/Torres/Kim/Picard/Dax/Troi/The Doctor/Crusher/Pulaski/Tuvok/Anyone Else butchers science, engineering, economics, general sanity and common sense - I get to ignore the stupid parts of the movies and that show (which I still have not watched - and don't plan to).

 

 

 

Heck, Data doesn't even know what a decayed body looks like, and... well... Torres can't identify shit even with a tricorder.

[Questor 501]

What I'm saying is that a two-millionfold increase in millitary membership in only 20 years is just a tad ridiculous.

 

 

 

Not when there wasn't a military at all before.

 

 

 

 

And the Death Star was being built when it was still the Republic.

 

 

 

 

Plans existed for a weapon similar to the Death Star. The need for the plans in ANH imply that it is not the same weapon - unless you are claiming that construction of that platform was kept secret for 20 years? Are you really that crazy?

 

 

 

And I suppose the second one appeared as if by magic?

 

 

 

The Executor and her sisters?

[Questor 501]

Which still shows that they were indeed spending a shit load of money on military.

 

Perhaps the 5 million additional Clones would have bankrupped the Republic, because of all the ships it was building , and the new "super-duper-don't-tell-anyone-or-we'll-kill-you" project of building a planet-killing weapon was already taxing the Republic's economy, especially in times of war where relief efforts would also incur high spendings for the Republic...

 

 

 

Please calculate the per capita additional tax burden on a million world poliical entity of a 10 million soldier army (5 million combat troops, plus 5 million support)

 

 

 

Use current global GDP and population for averages, and use US military cost per soldier/sailer/airman/marine.

 

 

 

Then tell me that that is going to bankrupt anyone.

[Khas 12,158]

Not when there wasn't a military at all before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plans existed for a weapon similar to the Death Star. The need for the plans in ANH imply that it is not the same weapon - unless you are claiming that construction of that platform was kept secret for 20 years? Are you really that crazy?

 

 

 

And I suppose the second one appeared as if by magic?

 

 

 

The Executor and her sisters?

 

 

 

I'm talking about the fact that we see the Death Star under construction at the end of Revenge of the Sith. It was clearly to far under construction to have been just been made in a few days, which was how long the Empire had existed at that point.

[enigma 521]

Please calculate the per capita additional tax burden on a million world poliical entity of a 10 million soldier army (5 million combat troops, plus 5 million support)

 

 

 

Use current global GDP and population for averages, and use US military cost per soldier/sailer/airman/marine.

 

 

 

Then tell me that that is going to bankrupt anyone.

 

 

 

I've read somewhere on average for a sergeant is like $500K. But that personnel costs including support personnel, AFAIK. It goes up if you factor in operating and equipment costs.

 

 

 

For grunts, average personnel costs is around $400K.

 

 

 

For ten million, that would come out to about $4 to $5 trillion dollars. The U.S. alone can afford that.

 

 

 

Coruscant, with its population of one trillion can easily afford it if each person donated 5 credits.

[enigma 521]

The ships alone seem cheap in comparison.

 

 

 

Nebulon - B - 9,000,000 credits

 

ISD Mk.1 - 180,000,000 credits

 

ISD Mk.2 - 145,670,000 credits.

 

 

 

If these ships were real and the currency exchange came out equal to the USD, I see the U.S. government along with other nations, dumping their naval ships for the Nebs and ISDs. lol

[Questor 501]

I'm talking about the fact that we see the Death Star under construction at the end of Revenge of the Sith. It was clearly to far under construction to have been just been made in a few days, which was how long the Empire had existed at that point.

 

 

 

As I recall, we see something that looks like the Death Star. And what does that have to do with anything? I'm pretty sure there's significant funding behind the sith in the prequels. Do you really think the Kaminoans took a PO for their clones? Do you really think that Drth Maul just stole that ship?

 

 

 

And you still have not answered my question about everything else.

[Khas 12,158]

It is the Death Star shown at the end of ROTS.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_III:_Revenge_of_the_Sith#A_New_Hope

 

 

 

What that has to do with this is that yes, the Death Star was kept secret for that long.

 

 

 

For the Executor and her sisters, they just built them once the Empire was up and running. But considering that they're so much smaller than the Death Star, this isn't really an issue.

 

 

 

The first one was also the prototype, so they had to work out the kinks before building DS II. After DS I was built, they knew how to build Death Stars now, which is why it took so much shorter to build DS II.

 

 

 

No, Darth Maul didn't steal that ship. It was custom-made for him by Seinar Fleet Systems (or one of the other Seinar companies).

 

 

 

Sifo-Diyas must have been really rich for such an undertaking not to attract the attention of the Republic.

[enigma 521]

It is the Death Star shown at the end of ROTS.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_III:_Revenge_of_the_Sith#A_New_Hope

 

 

 

What that has to do with this is that yes, the Death Star was kept secret for that long.

 

 

 

For the Executor and her sisters, they just built them once the Empire was up and running. But considering that they're so much smaller than the Death Star, this isn't really an issue.

 

 

 

The first one was also the prototype, so they had to work out the kinks before building DS II. After DS I was built, they knew how to build Death Stars now, which is why it took so much shorter to build DS II.

 

 

 

No, Darth Maul didn't steal that ship. It was custom-made for him by Seinar Fleet Systems (or one of the other Seinar companies).

 

 

 

Sifo-Diyas must have been really rich for such an undertaking not to attract the attention of the Republic.

 

 

 

For the DS, if you go by the EU, it was not the prototype. They had a facility (Maw Installation) inside the Maw Cluster (a cluster of black holes near Kessel.) There the prototype was built. The DS1's construction started at the Maw Installation before being completed at Despayre. Though there is some debate about the DS prototype and the DS1, it has been retconned so that they both were built alongside each other.

[Questor 501]

I'm pretty sure there was a cut there, do we have any evidence that that wasn't a 20 year time jump?

[Praeothmin 532]

Except we don't see any pockets or pouches, or web gear, or load bearing equipment. Also, we have seen Starfleet uniforms that have a lot of pockets and were warmer...

 

 

 

Have we seen them from the side or the back?

 

I just bought a pair of jeans and discovered it had a concealed pocket with a zipper after bringing it back home, because the pocket was well hidden.

 

If the zippers are only on the side lining, you could have 2-3 pockets per side, or even pockets on the bottom, near the waist, and in a loose upper tunic you'd never see them...

 

 

 

it's invalid because it's idiotic.

 

 

 

 

The ICS is idiotic in that it doesn't fit with what we see in the movies (KT level weaponry for fighters laser cannon, anyone?), yet people still cling to it...

 

 

 

If trekkies can demand that I ignore it when Data/Janeway/Geordi/Riker/Wesley/Torres/Kim/Picard/Dax/Troi/The Doctor/Crusher/Pulaski/Tuvok/Anyone Else butchers science, engineering, economics, general sanity and common sense - I get to ignore the stupid parts of the movies and that show (which I still have not watched - and don't plan to).

 

 

 

 

Except I never asked you to ignore the idiocies in ST, now did I?

 

The comment may be stupid, but the problem is, it's canon, and has to be reconciled with the SW universe...

 

And if you want us to ignore idiocies that don't fit with the movie, then we will ignore the "turn a world to slag" wank for the ISD since any such military with ships like that would not need, nor would they even consider building a DS.

 

1000 ISDs would do the same fucking job of killing all life on a planet and making sure nothing could ever live on it...

 

 

 

Please calculate the per capita additional tax burden on a million world poliical entity of a 10 million soldier army (5 million combat troops, plus 5 million support)

 

 

 

Except at the time of RotS, the Empire did NOT have a million worlds, most of these worlds are most likely no more than small colonies with hundreds or thousands of inhabitants (Dagobah is part of the Republic, for example), and perhaps what they meant was 5 millions troops, plus 5 million support personnel, plus the cost of the ships that come with them, plus living quarters and food and the energy they require, etc, etc...

 

 

 

Use current global GDP and population for averages, and use US military cost per soldier/sailer/airman/marine.

 

 

 

Then tell me that that is going to bankrupt anyone.

 

 

 

Except a Senator says it will with no other Senator arguing against that statement.

 

So there's a good chance it will.

 

Why is that, I don't know, but the show says so, so it will...