UFP vs. Empire vs. Terran Dominion - Ground Combat

[Khas 12,158]

Round 1:

 

Due to some cosmological mix-up, 1000 Starfleet Goldshirts (as of 2409), 1000 Imperial Stormtroopers (as of 4 ABY), and 1000 Terran Marines (as of 2504) are all sent to the same planet. Their mission? Eliminate the other two armies. We'll assume standard equipment for all three factions:

 

 

 

Goldshirt Armaments:

 

Compression Phaser Rifle

 

Phaser Pistol

 

Photon Grenades

 

 

 

Stormtrooper Armaments:

 

E-11 Blaster Rifle

 

Blaster Pistol

 

Thermal Detonators

 

 

 

Marine Armaments:

 

C-14 Gauss Rifle

 

Gauss Pistol

 

BE3 Grenade

 

 

 

Round 2:

 

Full-scale war for the planet. All types of weapons and vehicles for all sides are allowed. Victory is defined as the first group to wipe out the other two.

 

 

 

How does this go?

[enigma 521]

Round 1:

 

Due to some cosmological mix-up, 1000 Starfleet Goldshirts (as of 2409), 1000 Imperial Stormtroopers (as of 4 ABY), and 1000 Terran Marines (as of 2504) are all sent to the same planet. Their mission? Eliminate the other two armies. We'll assume standard equipment for all three factions:

 

 

 

Goldshirt Armaments:

 

Compression Phaser Rifle

 

Phaser Pistol

 

Photon Grenades

 

 

 

Stormtrooper Armaments:

 

E-11 Blaster Rifle

 

Blaster Pistol

 

Thermal Detonators

 

 

 

Marine Armaments:

 

C-14 Gauss Rifle

 

Gauss Pistol

 

BE3 Grenade

 

 

 

Round 2:

 

Full-scale war for the planet. All types of weapons and vehicles for all sides are allowed. Victory is defined as the first group to wipe out the other two.

 

 

 

How does this go?

 

 

 

Goldshirts lose first as they have no form of protection.

 

 

 

As for the Terran Marines, I assume you meant from Starcraft? I can't say much but to say that they look powerful but there is still some regarding their weapons. What is the range and ammo capacity of those Gauss rifles and pistols?

 

 

 

Also you'll need to state what type of thermal detonator the Stormtroopers use as they have several types. A single Class A and as quoted by Wookiepedia,

 

 

 

A single Class-A thermal detonator was sufficient to cause the collapse of Xizor's Palace, a huge 102-story building on Coruscant, when Lando Calrissian dropped it down the palace's garbage chute into its basement level.

 

 

 

This is the same type of TD that Leia had when confronting Jabba in RotJ. With a 20 meter (66ft) range, the Class A will seriously mess the TMs up.

 

 

 

Most likely the thermal detonator you are referring to are the ones that are on the backs of the stormtroopers. They look like white cylinders. They are a scaled down version of the Class A as their range is 5 meters (16ft) but still quite powerful.

 

 

 

The E-11 blaster rifle has a 500 ammo capacity with a max range of 300 meters (984ft).

 

 

 

I'm going to say for the moment a MAD scenario for the ST and the TM.

[enigma 521]

Round 2 will result in a victory for the Empire. They can assert space superiority and thus pound the crap out of the armies belonging to the other two. Then send in the troops to mop up.

[Khas 12,158]

The Gauss Rifle from StarCraft can accurately snipe from over a kilometer away. It fires shards of depleted uranium at hypersonic velocities at a rate of 30 rounds per second.

 

 

 

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/C-14_rifle

 

 

 

And no space forces. I should have been clearer about only ground forces uses.

 

 

 

And if you think that AT-ATs would let the GE win, might I introduce you to the Thor:

 

 

 

 

7-foot-tall man for scale (that's how big power armor makes you). Armaments: Rocket launchers and muon cannons.

 

 

 

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Thor

 

 

 

And the Odin:

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Odin

 

 

 

Armed with:

 

2 Twin-linked T800 Cannons

 

4 330 mm Howitzers

 

At least 1 nuclear missile.

[enigma 521]

Except the GE can spam troops and vehicles like there's no tomorrow. In a war of attrition, GE wins.

[Khas 12,158]

Except for the fact that the Thor is a very common walker, and the Terrans in StarCraft are more than a little nuke-happy. One rebellious world once got a thousand 735-teraton nukes blowing up right in its face.

[GhanjRho 0]

Except for the fact that the Thor is a very common walker, and the Terrans in StarCraft are more than a little nuke-happy. One rebellious world once got a thousand 735-teraton nukes blowing up right in its face.

 

Do we have proof that the Apocalypse-class nukes are 735-teraton? Remember, Korhal was inhabitable less than a generation after it was nuked.

 

 

 

And i agree with Enigma: in a war of a attrition, GE wins.

[Khas 12,158]

l33telboi ran the calcs for how powerful those nukes would have to be if there were a thousand of them and they turned an Earth-like, Earth-sized (well, more or less) world's surface into "blackened, radioactive glass". The answer came out at 735 teratons.

[enigma 521]

l33telboi ran the calcs for how powerful those nukes would have to be if there were a thousand of them and they turned an Earth-like, Earth-sized (well, more or less) world's surface into "blackened, radioactive glass". The answer came out at 735 teratons.

 

 

 

Yet GhanjRho mentioned that the planet was inhabitable a generation later. The planet can't be a blackened radioactive glass and yet still be inhabitable less than 30 years later.

[Khas 12,158]

Off-world survivors migrated back and began terraforming it. It even mentions in-game that there are still significant amounts of radiation in the planet's atmosphere.

[Praeothmin 532]

Goldshirts lose first as they have no form of protection.

 

 

 

Neither do the Stormtroopers, as we have seen just how much protection their armor provides: exactly the same as Dominion, Cardassian or Klingon armor, or in other words, they offer close to nothing vs energy weapons...

 

 

 

 

 

Also you'll need to state what type of thermal detonator the Stormtroopers use as they have several types. A single Class A and as quoted by Wookiepedia,

 

This is the same type of TD that Leia had when confronting Jabba in RotJ. With a 20 meter (66ft) range, the Class A will seriously mess the TMs up.

 

 

 

Most likely the thermal detonator you are referring to are the ones that are on the backs of the stormtroopers. They look like white cylinders. They are a scaled down version of the Class A as their range is 5 meters (16ft) but still quite powerful.

 

 

 

 

And the Federation's Photon Grenades were dangerous to Kirk and co at ranges less than 1200 meters...

 

And Khas gave them to the Redshirts...

 

 

 

 

 

The E-11 blaster rifle has a 500 ammo capacity with a max range of 300 meters (984ft).

 

 

 

 

And we've seen similar range for Federation rifles, I believe in "Rocks and Shoals" on DS9, and never heard mention of the amount of shots they can take...

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to say for the moment a MAD scenario for the ST and the TM.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to say, judging by the information on the Terran Marines Khas provided, that they wade through both the Redshirts and the Stormtroopers with little losses in scenario 1...

 

 

 

Scenario 2, though, sees the Federation lose for lack of infantry support, so it goes to either the GE or the TM, since I don't know how much material the TM has.

 

I'm sure, gamewise, that the TM can "spam troops and vehicles like there's no tomorrow" as well...

[enigma 521]

Scenario 2, though, sees the Federation lose for lack of infantry support, so it goes to either the GE or the TM, since I don't know how much material the TM has.

 

I'm sure, gamewise, that the TM can "spam troops and vehicles like there's no tomorrow" as well...

 

 

 

I'm not talking about game mechanics. The GE can literally beat the other two because of the millions upon millions of Stormtrooopers that the GE can draw upon. It would be even more lopsided if the Imperial Army is involved since the numbers would then be in the trillions. The GE can literally drown the Feds and the Terrans with the blood of the Imperial Army.

[Khas 12,158]

First of all, why would the Empire send the Entire Imperial Army to one planet? I was assuming standard invasion procedure for all three sides. And aside from Stormtroopers (and their variants), when have we EVER seen any other kind of Imperial soldier (I haven't seen a single other kind of Imperial soldier in any of the movies, games, or books that I have. Also, do they really have trillions? Remember, the cost of 5 million clones nearly bankrupted the Republic).

[enigma 521]

First of all, why would the Empire send the Entire Imperial Army to one planet? I was assuming standard invasion procedure for all three sides. And aside from Stormtroopers (and their variants), when have we EVER seen any other kind of Imperial soldier (I haven't seen a single other kind of Imperial soldier in any of the movies, games, or books that I have. Also, do they really have trillions? Remember, the cost of 5 million clones nearly bankrupted the Republic).

 

 

 

 

 

The Imperial Army is largely made up of recruits not clones. Besides, you said that in scenario number 2 that it is an all out war. The number of troops deployed doesn't have to make sense if all parties are somehow forced to engage in an all out victory.

 

 

 

If this was a true scenario then warships would be involved and the GE would win there too and the planet would be largely untouched.

[Khas 12,158]

I really should have said "all-out planetary war". A "sane" number for planetary invasion forces.

 

 

 

And you still didn't answer my question about non-Stormtrooper Imperial Troops.

[enigma 521]

I really should have said "all-out planetary war". A "sane" number for planetary invasion forces.

 

 

 

And you still didn't answer my question about non-Stormtrooper Imperial Troops.

 

 

 

AT-AT and AT-ST pilots were from the Imperial Army. I assume so were those running the DS'.

 

 

 

We haven't had in the OT major ground battles like in the Clone Wars save for a monir one in Hoth and that was done by stormtroopers because the fight was done by Vader's Death Squadron.

 

 

 

Kinda hard to do a major ground offensive showcasing the Imperial Army when the Rebellion doesn't have that kind of manpower.

 

 

 

As for the monetary cost. Do you really think that the GE has the same resources as the Republic? The GE managed to build thousands of ISDs, and built two DS' without bankrupting the Empire. You'll have to understand too that the Empire also used spaarti clones to make up a portion of the Stormtrooper Corps. They still managed to stay in the black.

[enigma 521]

Also in an all out planetary war, you'll more likely see the Imperial Army with the Stormtroopers used in specialized areas.

[Khas 12,158]

AT-AT and AT-ST pilots were from the Imperial Army. I assume so were those running the DS'.

 

 

 

We haven't had in the OT major ground battles like in the Clone Wars save for a monir one in Hoth and that was done by stormtroopers because the fight was done by Vader's Death Squadron.

 

 

 

Kinda hard to do a major ground offensive showcasing the Imperial Army when the Rebellion doesn't have that kind of manpower.

 

 

 

As for the monetary cost. Do you really think that the GE has the same resources as the Republic? The GE managed to build thousands of ISDs, and built two DS' without bankrupting the Empire. You'll have to understand too that the Empire also used spaarti clones to make up a portion of the Stormtrooper Corps. They still managed to stay in the black.

 

 

 

The guys actually piloting the AT-ATs were wearing Stormtrooper helmets. Besides, aren't the Stormtroopers the Imperial Army, and the guys whose faces we see just the officers?

 

 

 

And also, I'm pretty sure most of the guys on the Death Star were in the Imperial Navy.

 

 

 

And another thing, if there are trillions in the Imperial Army, then why was the loss of a million personnel on DS1 such a critical loss? That would be the scale equivalent of 20 people in New York City randomly dying, if not less.

[Khas 12,158]

Also, another point of this thread was to see just how far Jason would be willing to defend goldshirts against Terran Marines.

[Kor_Dahar_Master 0]

And the Odin:

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Odin

 

 

 

Armed with:

 

2 Twin-linked T800 Cannons

 

4 330 mm Howitzers

 

At least 1 nuclear missile.

 

 

 

I fucking loved the Odin and the comments the guy made using it "It followed me home, can i keep it?...

[GhanjRho 0]

First: I'm taking a page out of Mike Wong's book, and saying that since it can be assumed that Stormtrooper armor has a density greater than or equal to packing crates, the STs will wipe out the goldshirts.

 

 

 

Second: I'm officially labeling the "1000 nukes to kill Korhal" the result of author(s) not knowing the first thing about nukes. We can see both in-game and out-of-game (Speed of Darkness, Legacy of the Xel'Naga) that nukes are used as battlefield support. taht does not agree with a 735 Teraton weapon. While i yield to the possibility to the possibility taht there are multiple warhead sizes, the triple-digit teraton bombs can't be used as a battlefield weapon.

[Khas 12,158]

The nukes used in-game and in-novel are canonically stated to be MUCH weaker than the ones that took out Korhal. In fact, Korhal's glassing is why Apocalypse-class nukes are rarely used anymore.

 

 

 

And Stormtrooper armor is only designed to protect against glancing blaster shots, as stated in "Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology" (written in '04).

[GhanjRho 0]

*snip*

 

 

 

And Stormtrooper armor is only designed to protect against glancing blaster shots, as stated in "Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology" (written in '04).

 

 

 

I'm fairly sure that they also are designed to protect against shrapnel. In addition, do we have any proof that a phaser is equal or greater in armor-piercing power than a SW blaster?

[Khas 12,158]

Nope, it mentions that Stormtrooper armor only protects against glancing physical attacks as well.

 

 

 

As for phaser armor penetration, we don't really see that, because no one in Starfleet wears armor, although we do know from "A Piece Of The Action" that a hand phaser could "knock out the side of a building".

[enigma 521]

The guys actually piloting the AT-ATs were wearing Stormtrooper helmets. Besides, aren't the Stormtroopers the Imperial Army, and the guys whose faces we see just the officers?

 

 

 

And also, I'm pretty sure most of the guys on the Death Star were in the Imperial Navy.

 

 

 

And another thing, if there are trillions in the Imperial Army, then why was the loss of a million personnel on DS1 such a critical loss? That would be the scale equivalent of 20 people in New York City randomly dying, if not less.

 

 

 

Stormtrooper Corps are part of the Imperial Army, yes.

 

 

 

The At-AT pilots are IA despite the helmets. One of the reasons for it is the IA insignia on their helmets. According to Wookieepedia.

 

 

 

As for the DS1, maybe they were critical to the running of the DS? Specialized personnel? Number not unheard of considering how large the IA is. Again, having trillions isn't that huge considering the millions of worlds under GE control.

 

 

 

The Galactic Empire's territory at its peak consisted of some one and a half million member and conquered worlds, as well as sixty-nine million colonies, protectorates and puppet states spread throughout the entire galaxy, stretching from the borders of the Deep Core to at least Wild Space.[15] Emperor Palpatine sent Grand Admiral Thrawn on a mission to bring the rule of the Empire to the Unknown Regions. The Grand Admiral set up a command post at a fortress on Nirauan and from there brought the rule of the Empire to the uncharted regions of the galaxy, creating the Empire of the Hand.

 

 

 

500,000 member and conquered worlds plus 69,000,000 lesser worlds like colonies and so forth.

 

 

 

Since it is stated that the IA has tens of trillions (compared to the quadrillions or quintillions of droids built by the CIS during the Clone Wars) and if we evenly divided 10 trillion by 69,500,000 worlds would come out to almost 144,000 each. A very small number compared to the population of many of the inhabited planets. Now, let's say the troops were recruited strictly from the 500K member\conquered worlds. Since they'd be major worlds and let's say that each had the same population of Earth (an easy figure since some planets would have a hell of a lot more like Coruscant. Coruscant has over one trillion people in it's official census data. Who knows how many more unaccounted for in the underground?). 6 billion times 500K major worlds comes out to 3,000,000,000,000,000. Divide that up by 10,000,000,000,000 and you get one third of one percent recruited into the IA. Let's put it this way, in the U.S. that would be 1.2 million people recruited into the Armed Forces. Which is less that the actual figures of 1.6 million not including reserves.

 

 

 

So in fact, having at least ten trillion members of the Imperial Army would fall within reason for the size of the Empire.