The latest in debauchery

[InvaderSkooj 1]

InvaderSkooj,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. I have treated photon torpedoes as a variable and have inquired what the board considers the “average†yield. I have no wish to bog down this thread with debates on weapons calcs but since you asked here supports yields needed to combat a Bolo based upon the data Enigma provided.

Rather poorly, vivs calcs ranging from .9-127MT for the same incident, I of course lean towards the lower end, Which puts them on par with a bolo.......almost

 

 

 

3. I submit this as counter evidence from the shooting script of When it rains (DS9 season 7):

 

 

 

ROSS

 

Well, Gentlemen, it would seem

 

that the Klingon fleet is the

 

only thing standing between us

 

and the Dominion.

 

 

 

ROMULAN

 

(under his breath)

 

What have we come to... ?

 

 

 

Martok shoots him a look

 

 

 

MARTOK

 

By tomorrow, we'll have eleven

 

hundred Klingon vessels ready for

 

deployment.

 

 

 

DEEP SPACE NINE: "When it Rains... " - REV. 03/02/99 - TEASER 3.

 

 

 

2 CONTINUED: (2)

 

 

 

ROMULAN

 

(dismissive)

 

With the Breen, the Cardassians

 

and the Jem'Hadar you're still

 

outnumbered twenty-to-one.

 

 

 

We can conclude from this that the Klingon navy after two years of heavy fighting, in addition to fighting the cardassians before going to war with the Dominion, could still field at the very least more than a thousand warships. We can also conclude that the Breen-Cardassian-Dominion could field roughly 22 thousand vessels against whom the F-K-R force managed to ultimately defeat implying they were not heavily out numbered. If pressed the Federation can indeed unleash thousands of vessels, the only real argument is how many of these are Mirandas pulled out of cold storage vs Galaxy class or Sovereigns.

 

That presumes equal numbers all round, doesnt take into account the larger average size of the Alpha quadrant ships, I my self figure 3-6000 warships for the UFP at its peak, the majority of which would be mirandas, excelsior, and whatnot.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

You don't have anything on how far away the boat was or any indicator how long it took the missiles to reach it? Anything we might be able to calcuate a speed from?

Nope Bolo authors are usually astoundingly vague on anything not directly related to bolos themselves

 

 

 

 

 

Any details on speed, range yield? Are these cruise missiles or orbitals or both?

Vagueness, megaton range is the highest usually carried by missiles, they can carry both kinds of missiles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Is there any qualitive data on these fighters? Speed, size, manuverbility, endurance? Any statments on range traversed?

They were supposed to operate under the cover and protection of an entire task force, providing a fighter umbrella to operate at ranges of up to several light-hours from their flight decks, or on independent operations at extreme range from anything but the enemy's fighters.

part of the next section I quoted, several light-hour operational range would imply either high speed/acceleration or FTL, we know assault shuttles have inertial compensators, they crossed missile range rather than FTLing next to the ships what would you deduce

 

 

 

2. The plasma torpedo is rated as a megaton weapon and thirty to ninety of them, depending on if a fighter shoots all three barrels at once or not, destroyed six heavy vessels and damaged another. This strongly implies lower end megaton shielding.

Yup, uninterceptable megaton awls is how they are described

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't have anything on the distance from the silos the assault boat was or any indicator of the time it took for the rockets to overtake it do you?

Nope nothing other than the assault shuttle is capable of accelerating hard enough to require inertial dampening, one of the other books mentions 50Gs for a similar ship

 

 

 

Any data on how many out of those thousands they did shoot down? Also data on what they are using for point defense, what the missiles themselves had for protection etc.

they were hit by hundreds of missiles, point defense is conducted with everything from hellbores down to lasers and railguns, ECM

 

 

 

So is 180 vessels is a large attack force on average or are Surturs and Fenrises simply that uber?

Melconian bolo wannabes Surturs carry 6, 81cm hellbores, which should be around 2MT/s

 

 

 

 

 

Any more data on how powerful a Garm is, how powerful its individual cannons are, how many it fires, rate of fire etc? Anything to get a rough idea what the Bolo, a 33?, took before its battleshields failed? Any data on how powerful the shells and missiles were that were raining down around before the Garms fired?

 

Garms are more boloesque, carried fewer heavier guns likely more than 2MT/s, energy density rather than absolute firepower seems to be the primary factor in battlescreen penetration. missiles and shells could range anywhere from future HE to megaton range nukes

[sonofccn 0]

Rather poorly, vivs calcs ranging from .9-127MT for the same incident, I of course lean towards the lower end, Which puts them on par with a bolo.......almost

 

 

 

That presumes equal numbers all round, doesnt take into account the larger average size of the Alpha quadrant ships, I my self figure 3-6000 warships for the UFP at its peak, the majority of which would be mirandas, excelsior, and whatnot.

 

InvaderSkooj,

 

 

 

1. Rather poorly? All but the very lowest estimates are comparable or far superior to what the best Bolo can dish out. If we go with middle ground on the range of calculations it is the Bolos who are outmatched.

 

 

 

2. You also have to take into account that those smaller ships, through the dominon also fielded vessels larger than the alliance vessels, tore the guts out of the feds and the klingons vessels. That this is roughly two years in a war that each side was losing hundreds of ships per engagement in. In short 6000 vessels seems like a very conservative estimate and would still be deploying thousands of starships.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

InvaderSkooj,

 

 

 

1. Rather poorly? All but the very lowest estimates are comparable or far superior to what the best Bolo can dish out. If we go with middle ground on the range of calculations it is the Bolos who are outmatched.

Vivs lowest numbers are lower than a 200cm hellbore, most the rest have inferior energy density, and are interceptable

 

 

 

2. You also have to take into account that those smaller ships, through the dominon also fielded vessels larger than the alliance vessels, tore the guts out of the feds and the klingons vessels. That this is roughly two years in a war that each side was losing hundreds of ships per engagement in. In short 6000 vessels seems like a very conservative estimate and would still be deploying thousands of starships.

 

While the dominion did field larger ships, the majority of their fleet was composed of bugs. And they werent losing hundreds of ships in every engagement, and the majority of their warships were ancient designs likely reactivated for the war, a couple of years before 40 ships was a major loss that was going to take a year to replace

[sonofccn 0]

Vivs lowest numbers are lower than a 200cm hellbore, most the rest have inferior energy density, and are interceptable

 

 

 

While the dominion did field larger ships, the majority of their fleet was composed of bugs. And they werent losing hundreds of ships in every engagement, and the majority of their warships were ancient designs likely reactivated for the war, a couple of years before 40 ships was a major loss that was going to take a year to replace

 

InvaderSkooj,

 

 

 

1. A 200 cm hellbore maxes out at 5 megatons per shot. Are you suggesting that is more potent than say 22 megatons, still on the lower end of the scale, much less say 50 megatons? As to intercepting a torpedo please remember they are shielded and the Bolo in question will have only seconds to engage the target.

 

 

 

2. No? Here’s a couple of battle loses. First the seventh fleet from A time to Stand (DS9 season 6)

 

 

 

There's news of the Seventh

 

Fleet...

 

 

 

SISKO

 

(bracing himself for the

 

news)

 

Go on.

 

 

 

DEEP SPACE NINE: "A Time to Stand" - REV. 7/31/97 - TEASER 8A.

 

 

 

5 CONTINUED: (4)

 

 

 

BASHIR

 

Only fourteen ships made it back

 

to our lines.

 

 

 

MARTOK

 

(grim)

 

Fourteen out of a hundred and

 

twelve...

 

 

 

BASHIR

 

(showing his anger)

 

Sir, we can't keep taking those

 

kinds of losses -- not if we expect

 

to win this –

 

ninety-eight vessels lost and its just one more in a line of losses.

 

 

 

Now here’s when it rains (DS9) season 7

 

 

 

 

 

2 INT. WARDROOM

 

 

 

Where SISKO, MARTOK, ADMIRAL ROSS and a ROMULAN

 

GENERAL are listening to O'BRIEN brief them about

 

the Breen situation. On the WALL MONITOR we see a

 

STARCHART displaying the current tactical picture.

 

 

 

O'BRIEN

 

-- basically we stumbled onto it

 

by accident. At Chin'toka, our

 

entire fleet was disabled when

 

the Breen engaged their energy-

 

dampening weapon. Three hundred

 

and eleven ships -- Federation,

 

Romulan, and Klingon -- all lost

 

power.

 

 

 

Again hundreds of vessels.

 

 

 

Here is a call to arms (DS9 season five)

 

 

 

Jem'Hadar troops physically force open the airlocks,

 

then form up ranks to make way for Dukat, Damar, and

 

Weyoun as the step onto the Promenade.

 

 

 

DAMAR

 

This is a great victory for

 

Cardassia...

 

 

 

DUKAT

 

(magnanimous)

 

And the Dominion.

 

 

 

WEYOUN

 

Over fifty ships lost. Our

 

spacedocks on Torros Three

 

destroyed. A victory perhaps.

 

But a costly one.

 

 

 

DUKAT

 

We'll discuss the repercussions

 

later. Right now, I intend to

 

enjoy this moment.

 

A relatively minor battle, a diversion by Starfleet to take out the mentioned spacedocks, resulted in over fifty ships lost.

 

 

 

Now here’s Favor the bold (DS9 season 6)

 

O'BRIEN

 

I'm picking something up...

 

(a beat as he reads his

 

console)

 

Sir, it's a large Dominion fleet,

 

bearing zero-zero-four mark zero-

 

zero-nine.

 

 

 

SISKO

 

How large?

 

 

 

At first O'Brien doesn't answer, slightly taken aback

 

by what he's reading on his console.

 

 

 

O'BRIEN

 

Twelve hundred and fifty four

 

ships.

 

 

 

A beat as everyone absorbs this information.

 

 

 

BASHIR

 

They outnumber us two to one.

 

 

 

GARAK

 

Now who's being negative.

 

Many hundreds of vessels engaged in a battle to retake deep space nine. Now while I can’t find an actual number stated for losses I think we can safely assume we aren’t talking about a ship or two.

 

 

 

Now as to your belief that the majority of Starfleet vessels are obsolete relics pulled into service you are welcome to try and prove this. Some are indeed old but the majority? You will have to do more than reference BOBWs 39 lost vessels and it was in less than one year not a full year to replace the losses during peace time.

[sonofccn 0]

part of the next section I quoted, several light-hour operational range would imply either high speed/acceleration or FTL, we know assault shuttles have inertial compensators, they crossed missile range rather than FTLing next to the ships what would you deduce

Without a solid time frame for them getting light hours away coupled with the knowledge that this is a maximum range and that this race possesses FTL sensors giving them days of forewarning I see nothing to indicate speed. Now is there anything on how far away the enemy vessels were and where the fighters launched from otherwise nothing of value can be construed regarding point defense.

 

 

 

Nope nothing other than the assault shuttle is capable of accelerating hard enough to require inertial dampening, one of the other books mentions 50Gs for a similar ship mentions 50Gs for a similar ship

Thank you but if could please post the segment describing the assault shuttle at 50 Gs.

 

they were hit by hundreds of missiles, point defense is conducted with everything from hellbores down to lasers and railguns, ECM

I didn’t see that quote, the only Bolo being hit doesn’t quantify what is raining down upon him.

 

 

 

Garms are more boloesque, carried fewer heavier guns likely more than 2MT/s, energy density rather than absolute firepower seems to be the primary factor in battlescreen penetration.

It should still give us a rough magnitude of what a Bolo can take. I’m still slightly confused on if only two Garms lived long enough to open fire or it took all fifteen to punch through and two lived long enough to impact the armor. In addition is 2 MT/s per gun or per Garm?

 

missiles and shells could range anywhere from future HE to megaton range nukes

So there is no evidence that the enemy fire was even kiloton in yield? What about area of effect, damage to the local environment?

[InvaderSkooj 1]

InvaderSkooj,

 

 

 

1. A 200 cm hellbore maxes out at 5 megatons per shot. Are you suggesting that is more potent than say 22 megatons, still on the lower end of the scale, much less say 50 megatons? As to intercepting a torpedo please remember they are shielded and the Bolo in question will have only seconds to engage the target.

As far as battlescreens are concerned yes. a 200cm hellbore concentrates its energy in an area 2m in diameter, a photon torpedo delivers its energy to everywhere in Line of Sight. thus

 

1. 200cm hellbore: 6.6e11J/cm^2

 

2. 50MT photon torpedo 1cm above hull:5.14e7J/cm^2

 

3.Seconds is plenty of time to engage for a bolo, and they are capable of using any of their weapons for point defense, which includes nuclear tipped missiles and kiloton range infinite repeaters

 

 

 

 

 

2.

 

Many hundreds of vessels engaged in a battle to retake deep space nine. Now while I can’t find an actual number stated for losses I think we can safely assume we aren’t talking about a ship or two.

Unless you want to claim those are the only battles in the Dominion war thats still less than a thousand ships, and doesnt indicate them taking hundreds of casualties at EVERY battle. Also note Bashir in your first quote mentions they cant continue to take losses like that and win

 

 

 

Now as to your belief that the majority of Starfleet vessels are obsolete relics pulled into service you are welcome to try and prove this. Some are indeed old but the majority? You will have to do more than reference BOBWs 39 lost vessels and it was in less than one year not a full year to replace the losses during peace time.

 

It is quite simple math look at most any fleet screenshot

 

 

UFP ships 3 galaxies, 4 mirandas, 3 excelsiors, of 10 ships 70% are old

 

 

5 galaxies,4 akiras, 4 saber/steamrunners, 7attack fighters, 8 excelsiors, 8 mirandas, 1 defiant. only by counting attack fighters do modern ships outnumber the old, 48% including fighters,61% capital ships only

 

 

 

 

3 galaxies, 10 akira/saber/steamrunner, 6 attack fighters, 8 excelsiors, 11 mirandas. 50/50 including fighters 59% capital ships

 

 

 

 

 

Hmmm I'm seeing a pattern here

[Questor 501]

A.) Torpedoes are shielded? Has he proved this anywhere?

 

 

 

B.) Skooj, that energy for the photon torpedo is the peak, and that occurs only under the detonation. You need to take the area under the curve defined by the inverse square law, and then average it across the affected area. I guarantee you that the number comes out even lower.

 

 

 

C.) So you're ignoring time averaging on Bolo weapons, Skooj? Trekkies always demand it be used when accounting for their weapons.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

Without a solid time frame for them getting light hours away coupled with the knowledge that this is a maximum range and that this race possesses FTL sensors giving them days of forewarning I see nothing to indicate speed. Now is there anything on how far away the enemy vessels were and where the fighters launched from otherwise nothing of value can be construed regarding point defense.

While true it also, doesn't mention the assault taking days either, inertial compensation suggests accelerations capable of human harm

 

 

 

Thank you but if could please post the segment describing the assault shuttle at 50 Gs.

Bolo strike p.59 "Contra-gravity thrusters.... at maximum....The pod..pulls....fifty Gs"

 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t see that quote, the only Bolo being hit doesn’t quantify what is raining down upon him.

there were 16 Bolos total,

 

Bolo p.152 "Her heart froze as she recognized what they were doing, and then the holocaust washed over them. The towering explosions crashed down on the reconnaissance company like the boot of some angry titan, hobnailed in nuclear flame. They were forty kilometers ahead of the Battalion's main body, and the warheads were standard Puppy issue, incongruously "clean" in what had become a genocidal war of mutual extermination. Yet there were hundreds of them, and lethal tides of radiation sleeted outward with the thermal flash, followed moments later by the blast front itself. Maneka clung to her sanity with bleeding fingernails as Thor's hammer slammed into Benjy. The huge Bolo lurched like a storm-tossed galleon as the green, living forest about them, already torn and outraged by the Battalion's passage and the handful of high-trajectory missiles which had gotten through, flashed into instant flame. The Battalion charged onward, straight through that incandescent inferno, duralloy armor shrugging aside the radiation and blast and heat which would have smashed the life instantly from the fragile protoplasmic beings riding their command decks. The visual display showed only a writhing ocean of fire and dust, of explosion and howling wind, like some obscene preview of Hell, but it was a Hell Bolos were engineered to survive . . . and defeat.

 

 

 

None of the reconnaissance Bolos in the direct path of the missile strike survived, but the chaos and massive spikes of EMP generated by the missiles which killed them had a disastrous effect on the missiles which had acquired the rest of the Battalion. Those same conditions hampered the Bolos' antimissile defenses, but the degradation it imposed on the missiles' kill probabilities was decisive."

Nukes of unknown yield

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bolo p.152 "Not that there weren't still plenty of them to go around. Over seventy targeted Benjy, even as he charged through the raging fires and devastation of the primary strike zone. The gargantuan Bolo's point defense stopped most of them short of his battle screen, but twenty-three reached attack range, and his fifteen-thousand-ton hull bucked and heaved as the fusion warheads gouged at his battle screen and drove searing spikes of hellfire directly into his armor. Thor's hammer smashed down again. Then again, and again and again. Even through the concussions and the terrifying vibration, Maneka could see entire swathes of his battle board blazing bloody scarlet as damage ripped away weapons and sensors."

47/70 hypersonic cruise missiles at 50m + unknown number from orbit, survives being hit by 23+ nukes

 

 

 

yield ranges up to

 

OldSoldiers p.137-8 "The same mountains which protected the Melconian column from Maneka/Lazarus' direct fire also protected her/their missiles from interception. They sped directly to their targets, separating, spreading out, adjusting their trajectories with finicky precision. At precisely the correct moment, all six of them killed their drives and continued onward at just over seven thousand kilometers per hour. They slammed into the mountainside, and the superdense, ballistically shaped deep-penetrator warheads she/they had mounted upon them drilled through solid earth and stone like hypervelocity bullets. They plunged deep into the heart of the mountain, driving directly into the fault pattern Maneka/Lazarus' deep scan radar mapping had revealed weeks before.

 

 

 

And then six megaton-range warheads detonated as one."

Megaton range nukes for bolos

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OldSoldiers p.150 "But for the seconds in which their drives survived, they accelerated the missiles in which they were mounted at a hundred and seventy gravities. At that rate of acceleration, it would take them 5.38 seconds to reach their destination, and their velocity when they did would be well over thirty thousand kilometers per hour."

Melconian surface to surface missiles can accelerate at 170Gs, 5.4s flight time and now for the result 2 pages later

 

 

 

 

 

A tornado of defensive fire ripped into the missile storm as her/their defenses engaged the threat. Lasers, flechettes, cannon shells, proximity-fused countermissiles which had actually launched fractions of a second before the Fenrises had. It was as if a solid, incandescent battering ram lunged downward, hurling itself across the ridge at them, and its mushrooming head of flame was the missiles being splintered and torn asunder by her/their fire.

 

 

 

It was incredible. The backwash of blinding brightness from that cauldron of destruction flickered from her/their mighty prow like lightning in the maw of a hurricane. Yet for all the precision, power, and volume of her/their defensive fire, they simply could not stop that many missiles. Not in the time she/they had between the moment the missiles cleared the ridge and the moment they reached their target.

 

 

 

She/they killed many of them. Almost six hundred had been fired at her/them, and four hundred and seventy-three were destroyed by her/their defensive fire. Thirty-seven more suffered structural failure and simply disintegrated, and the debris from their disintegration destroyed six more birds which ran into the wreckage in flight. Nine more dipped too close to the ridge line and slammed into the far side of its crest like artificial meteors. But that left fifty-one.

 

 

 

Fusion warheads detonated in the split instant before they struck her/their battle screen. That screen would have absorbed the purely kinetic energy of those weapons without even a flicker, but the Melconian weaponeers who had built them were well aware of that. And so they had designed their warheads to detonate in the last sliver of a second before the battle screen could tear them apart. Not even the Concordiat could have guaranteed truly simultaneous detonation of that many warheads—not at that velocity. Six of them failed to detonate in time, rammed into Maneka/Lazarus' battle screen, and vanished. Another nineteen failed to detonate quickly enough and were killed by fratricide before their fuses activated. Which meant that "only" twenty-six actually detonated as planned.

 

 

 

Those warheads were designed for variable yield, adjustable to suit the tactical circumstances, and Colonel Uran Na-Lythan had ordered them set for maximum yield. Low-megaton-range fireballs slammed into her/their battle screen like brimstone sledgehammers. Her/their fifteen-thousand-ton bulk heaved like a storm-sick galleon as that inconceivable fury bled into her/their battle screen.

Single MkXXVIII bolo destroys 473-170G missiles in less than 5.4s, then survives 26 "low megaton" explosions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It should still give us a rough magnitude of what a Bolo can take. I’m still slightly confused on if only two Garms lived long enough to open fire or it took all fifteen to punch through and two lived long enough to impact the armor. In addition is 2 MT/s per gun or per Garm?

see above. the garm weapons should be in excess of 2MT/s and with a boloesque design mount 1-3 main weapons.

 

So there is no evidence that the enemy fire was even kiloton in yield? What about area of effect, damage to the local environment?

Nope thought it was obvious they were kiloton range at a minimum, but as shown above, they can survive 26 megaton range nukes

[InvaderSkooj 1]

A.) Torpedoes are shielded? Has he proved this anywhere?

No I know they have them, its more fun to make him prove how strong they are

 

 

 

B.) Skooj, that energy for the photon torpedo is the peak, and that occurs only under the detonation. You need to take the area under the curve defined by the inverse square law, and then average it across the affected area. I guarantee you that the number comes out even lower.

I was being nice, using a 50MT weapon and assuming the entire area took a contact detonation, A 4 OoM difference should silence most sane people, I dont feel like doing that much math on the weekend

 

 

 

C.) So you're ignoring time averaging on Bolo weapons, Skooj? Trekkies always demand it be used when accounting for their weapons.

 

Cant say I'm trying to wank, that and there's a few quotes that mention 5MT bolts, and as I've said before I dont see how a .7c kinetic/fusion weapon needs a full second to dump its energy

[InvaderSkooj 1]

As for warship weapons, the plasma torpedoes were describes as being more powerful than a 2.75MT 110cm hellbore, so the cruisers and destroyers took, 82.5- 247.5 megatons of tightly focused "awls" from the fighter attacks

[Questor 501]

I was being nice, using a 50MT weapon and assuming the entire area took a contact detonation, A 4 OoM difference should silence most sane people, I dont feel like doing that much math on the weekend

 

 

 

I was nice to Jason once, now I have this yapping dog biting my ankles.

 

 

 

 

Cant say I'm trying to wank, that and there's a few quotes that mention 5MT bolts, and as I've said before I dont see how a .7c kinetic/fusion weapon needs a full second to dump its energy

 

 

That's the main reason I like the time averaged figure, but you're right about the references to 5MT bolts.

[InvaderSkooj 1]

I was nice to Jason once, now I have this yapping dog biting my ankles.

Meh this one seems relatively sane, If not, its hard to support 50MT photorps, given all the low ends

 

 

 

 

 

That's the main reason I like the time averaged figure, but you're right about the references to 5MT bolts.

 

I never really thought about it , I read the weber books first, and then the really old laumer one that only had stories about older models, its only the Keith ones that tend to be filled with the crazy shit

[Questor 501]

Meh this one seems relatively sane, If not, its hard to support 50MT photorps, given all the low ends

 

 

 

Generally, once you pull out calculus, even REALY simple calculus like that (which could be approximated with basic geometry even), wankers tend to shut up.

[Tyralak 12,068]

A.) Torpedoes are shielded? Has he proved this anywhere?

 

 

 

Darkstar claimed to have some evidence to support it, but I'm not sure I buy it.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Ummm yeah I can just pull numbers out of my ass too, Well not the TM ones of course

 

 

 

Why not? Saxton did. All teh kewl kids are doing it.

[enigma 521]

Why not? Saxton did. All teh kewl kids are doing it.

 

 

 

Except Saxton gets the George Lucas seal of approval (through his company that is.).

[Questor 501]

Except Saxton gets the George Lucas seal of approval (through his company that is.).

 

 

 

Playing Devil's Advocate: So did Karen Travis.

[Tyralak 12,068]

And Kevin J. Anderson.

[enigma 521]

Playing Devil's Advocate: So did Karen Travis.

 

 

 

For better or worse at least they have some clout where there is almost none for ST.

[Tyralak 12,068]

For better or worse at least they have some clout where there is almost none for ST.

 

 

 

I read that about 5 times and I still can't get what you're trying to say.

[enigma 521]

I read that about 5 times and I still can't get what you're trying to say.

 

 

 

What Saxton says is backed by Lucasfilm. Same with Travis(ty). Noone on the Trek side has backing of Paramount aside from the T.V. shows and the movies. Until Lucasfilm (or whatever the name is after Luas ) releaes an updated ICS, CCS, etc.... Saxton's books overall is accepted by The Powers That Be.

 

 

 

A Trek novelist can write whatever he or she wants but still has the same level of canonicity as mine if I wrote a little Trek short story involving Spock and his lover, a Roomba.

[Questor 501]

A Trek novelist can write whatever he or she wants but still has the same level of canonicity as mine if I wrote a little Trek short story involving Spock and his lover, a Roomba.

 

 

 

Why is Data's lover cheating on him with Spock?

[Tyralak 12,068]

What Saxton says is backed by Lucasfilm. Same with Travis(ty). Noone on the Trek side has backing of Paramount aside from the T.V. shows and the movies. Until Lucasfilm (or whatever the name is after Luas ) releaes an updated ICS, CCS, etc.... Saxton's books overall is accepted by The Powers That Be.

 

 

 

A Trek novelist can write whatever he or she wants but still has the same level of canonicity as mine if I wrote a little Trek short story involving Spock and his lover, a Roomba.

 

 

 

Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. Nobody claimed Trek books are canon. I'm not sure what exactly you think you're arguing. As for the Wars EU, you do realize how this stuff works don't you? The writer is given a contract to do X number of books. The approval is given before the book is completed. Barring some extreme insanity (Like a backstory showing Palpatine as a flaming gay biker who likes to fuck Wampas.) they're usually rubber-stamped through. There really isn't a lot of quality control after the fact.

[Questor 501]

Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. Nobody claimed Trek books are canon. I'm not sure what exactly you think you're arguing. As for the Wars EU, you do realize how this stuff works don't you? The writer is given a contract to do X number of books. The approval is given before the book is completed. Barring some extreme insanity (Like a backstory showing Palpatine as a flaming gay biker who likes to fuck Wampas.) they're usually rubber-stamped through. There really isn't a lot of quality control after the fact.

 

 

 

To be fair, they did eventually fire Travis, and if the pink slip didn't have the words Mandowank or something to that effect on it, I'm a monkey's uncle.

 

 

 

And next you'll be telling us that internet outcry didn't convince lucas to reduce Jar Jar's role in Episodes 2 and 3.

 

 

 

Why must you kill our dreams?