Questor 501 Posted December 20, 2009 So you are suggestion the Klingon Birds of prey in Yesterday Enterprise universe did not have photon torpedoes. I find that unlikely to be the case at best. They provide to many advance over energy base weapons. Photon torpedoes can fire great distances from it target then any energy weapons Star Terk we have so far. Photon torpedoes give off more bangs when they hit there target even in Yesterday Enterprise Universe. USS Enterprise D could have out run the birds of prey if it was not for fact that the USS Enterprise D was defending the USS Enterprise C. USS Enterprise D is more faster then these Birds of prey Yesterday Enterprise Universe. Hey, Dipshit! You still haven't answered my five questions. Also, when are you going to refute my argument that photorps have between 10t and 10kt of energy. Please use mathmatics and logic, rather than quoting a site you don't understand. Also, if you post another insane "my link" I may have to start imitating you with random goatse and sa inserts in my own posts, so please make any links relevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 20, 2009 Klingon did not surrider or talk about surridering even when ran out ships and you still have not explain ot me why the Klingon Bird of prey not armed with photon torpedoes. The Klingon Bird of prey photon torpedoes are stronger then Klingon bird of prey disruptors otherwise that little suprise attact that was done on USS Enterpise C would destory her. Episode Q who Commander DATA Without our shields -- at this range there is a high degree of probability that a photon detonation could destroy the Enterprise. Here as the link I found it on in case you are intersted.My link As read this line As Castillo reaches for it... suddenly an EXPLOSION rocks the ship, throwing them off balance. This scriped Yesterday Enterpise 52 NEW ANGLE (OPTICAL) A Klingon bird of prey has appeared on the Main Viewer. Castillo rushes over to the helm... Tasha to tactical. Over this: GARRETT Red Alert. Full power to shields. Red Alert sounds. TASHA Shields are up. Functioning. Here the link I got it from in case care to read and check out for yourself My link War would have going at lost wost for Klingon Empire then UFP if they have shut down photon toropode factories because need the resourses to build starship instead. What are other five question by way I had problem finding them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted December 20, 2009 Klingon did not surrider or talk about surridering even when ran out ships and you still have not explain ot me why the Klingon Bird of prey not armed with photon torpedoes. There can be dozens of reasons. You have not shown why this is relevant. The Klingon Bird of prey photon torpedoes are stronger then Klingon bird of prey disruptors otherwise that little suprise attact that was done on USS Enterpise C would destory her. Episode Q who Commander DATA Without our shields -- at this range there is a high degree of probability that a photon detonation could destroy the Enterprise. Here as the link I found it on in case you are intersted.My link Think about it a little, please. Why the fuck would range matter with a photon torpedo? Also, please explain why this is relevant to the discussion. At ANY range, without shields, a single photon torpedo, no matter the yield, would be a terrible danger to any ship, its the nature of nuclear/antimatter weapons in space. This quote says more about the nature of Federation hulls than about the nature of the weapons. As read this line As Castillo reaches for it... suddenly an EXPLOSION rocks the ship, throwing them off balance. This scriped Yesterday Enterpise 52 NEW ANGLE (OPTICAL) A Klingon bird of prey has appeared on the Main Viewer. Castillo rushes over to the helm... Tasha to tactical. Over this: GARRETT Red Alert. Full power to shields. Red Alert sounds. TASHA Shields are up. Functioning. Here the link I got it from in case care to read and check out for yourself My link USE THE FUCKING QUOTE TAG! You've just shown that the ship was shielded during the rest of the battle, you have not shown why it is imperative that Klingon ships carry a guided weapon, or even that these ships had not simply USED all of their photon torpedos before this engagement. If you cannot understand the disadvantages of an ammunition based weapon, your are just a complete fucking moron, and I really don't know what to say to you. War would have going at lost wost for Klingon Empire then UFP if they have shut down photon toropode factories because need the resourses to build starship instead. What the fuck does that sentence even mean? Assuming you are trying to say: The war must be going badly for the Klingon Empire because they have been forced to shut down photon torpedo factories because they need to use the resources to build starships instead. Then my response is that you are a fucking moron who can't understand the concept of different weapons and the advantages of one weapon over another. This has generated another two questions, that will be posed at the bottom of this post. What are other five question by way I had problem finding them. More evidence that you are a troll. From earlier in the thread, Mr. I Know History: Are you just that stupid? You are trying to make this ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE? Seriously, I have a patagonian conure who gets this better. For today's assignment, class, we have two prompts. Please answer them both. 1. Please explain why you do not believe this is a war between empires. Provide at least two pieces of supporting evidence from history and an explanation of why they are relevant. Also please provide the class with a definition of asymmetrical warfare that you intend to work from. 2. Please discuss the history of the indochinese wars, beginning with Mao and continuing on through the US involvement in Vietnam. Please also discuss how you view the US as winning the Vietnam War. Extra credit will be given for discussion of the historical and political imperatives involved on the French, American, and Vietnamese sides. Not to mention the utter failure to accomplish the mission. Today's assignment for the class (once again, it is in multiple parts) 1. Discuss the aims and functions of the "continental blockade," since the Napoleonic war. Also discuss the origins of the terms "blockade runner" and "commerce raider," and their functions in each war that a continental blockade was used. 2. Compare and contrast the U-Boat campaigns from WWI, and WWII. Pay particular attention to the differences between the two theaters of WWII. Also pay attention to the U-Boat on surface ship attacks. 3. Provide evidence that the situation is analogous. Please identify the power occupying the position of the UK in this situation. The two additional questions involving weapons and history: 1. Compare and contrast the guns of the Iowa and the Yamato. Please explain why the general consensus is that an Iowa would have handed the Yamato's ass to it. 2. Consider the efficacy of anti-ship weapons on aircraft carriers, and explain why only limited anti-ship weapons are carried on modern aircraft carriers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 20, 2009 They didn't fire the torpedoes because they were confident that they didn't need it? This is just pure speculation because we do not know why they didn't choose to use photon torpedoes. Still doesn't change the fact that the Klingons were still winning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted December 20, 2009 They didn't fire the torpedoes because they were confident that they didn't need it? This is just pure speculation because we do not know why they didn't choose to use photon torpedoes. Still doesn't change the fact that the Klingons were still winning. I'm allowing myself to be sidetracked a little on the hope that he will try and show that photon torpedoes have gigaton-range yield. If he doesn't attempt to refute my analysis of photon yield, then I'll move us back on topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 21, 2009 USS Iowa smeller then Yamato's making harder target to. USS Iowa is faster then Yamato meaning it can out run or stay it distance. USS Iowa was armed 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 gun lighter but could give off the same amount of punch as Yamato Battleship 40 cm/45 Type 94. This would have given the USS Iowa great advance over the Yamato battleship. The Guns on USS Iowa would able turn faster. Aircraft carries do not carry longer amount ant ship weapon for A Aircraft carries have longer number fighter- bombs that they can launch and us there own aid-ship weapons that does that job for. B aircraft carries are escort by other warships. However I fail to see what this has anything to do with this debate. As for the idea Klingon starships ran out photon torpedoes to my option is very unlikely to say the least. A Klingon Empire had cargo ships could that also had cloak device install on them. That a basic tactic of war. Also Fact that Klingon could only send three starship face USS Enterprise C and USS Enterprise D PICARD Any signs of other Klingon vessels? DATA'S COM VOICE No, sir. TASHA I'm sure our coordinates have been transmitted to the Klingon command... we must not remain here. Picard studies the helmsman... CASTILLO Sir, it is my intention to return, unless you order me not to. Picard's eyes glow with admiration for the young lieutenant... Tasha watches with renewed concern, but she too respects him enormously. PICARD How soon will your ship be ready? CASTILLO We sustained moderate damage in the attack... I think we can get underway in a few hours... PICARD (to Riker) We will maintain position to provide cover. (to Castillo) Make it so. Castillo salutes the captain, Picard gives him a good tough salute in return... and he EXITS, followed by Tasha. The fact Klingon could only got three ships there in few hours time of notice does not sound like wining side of a war. If the USS Enterpise D had taken the offense three klingon starships lot more problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 21, 2009 Stop being a fucking idiot! By your logic then the E-D should have been with a bunch of other ships but instead was alone with the E-C. DURRR THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THEY WERE WINNING THE WAR!!! DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted December 21, 2009 USS Iowa smeller then Yamato's making harder target to. USS Iowa is faster then Yamato meaning it can out run or stay it distance. USS Iowa was armed 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 gun lighter but could give off the same amount of punch as Yamato Battleship 40 cm/45 Type 94. This would have given the USS Iowa great advance over the Yamato battleship. The Guns on USS Iowa would able turn faster. Aside from the irrelevant crack about tracking rates, you are correct, but ignoring some of the other issues that are implied by the information you just regurgitated from some website. You clearly can obtain the information, but cannot use the knowledge. Why was the Mark 7 superior? What characteristics made it superior? What were the armor schemes of both ships? What technology changed just before WWII that made the longer range and higher accuracy at long range of the Mark 7 a decisive factor? Aircraft carries do not carry longer amount ant ship weapon for A Aircraft carries have longer number fighter- bombs that they can launch and us there own aid-ship weapons that does that job for. B aircraft carries are escort by other warships. Once again, superficially correct, but without the elaboration needed to understand the point I was trying to make. However I fail to see what this has anything to do with this debate. I was making points about weapons balance decisions and the fact that every ship need not have the same loadout. As for the idea Klingon starships ran out photon torpedoes to my option is very unlikely to say the least. A Klingon Empire had cargo ships could that also had cloak device install on them. That a basic tactic of war. 1: Photon Torpedos are an expendable munition. Running out is possible. 2: Only an idiot would assume that because you have supply transports that means the supply happens. I'd suggest you ask George Patton why he stopped advancing during Market-Garden. Also Fact that Klingon could only send three starship face USS Enterprise C and USS Enterprise D PICARD Any signs of other Klingon vessels? DATA'S COM VOICE No, sir. TASHA I'm sure our coordinates have been transmitted to the Klingon command... we must not remain here. Picard studies the helmsman... CASTILLO Sir, it is my intention to return, unless you order me not to. Picard's eyes glow with admiration for the young lieutenant... Tasha watches with renewed concern, but she too respects him enormously. PICARD How soon will your ship be ready? CASTILLO We sustained moderate damage in the attack... I think we can get underway in a few hours... PICARD (to Riker) We will maintain position to provide cover. (to Castillo) Make it so. Castillo salutes the captain, Picard gives him a good tough salute in return... and he EXITS, followed by Tasha. The fact Klingon could only got three ships there in few hours time of notice does not sound like wining side of a war. If the USS Enterpise D had taken the offense three klingon starships lot more problems. Enigma answered this much more effectively. But I will just point out that you are applying different conditions to both sides. And now: ANSWER THE FIVE QUESTIONS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted December 21, 2009 Stop being a fucking idiot! By your logic then the E-D should have been with a bunch of other ships but instead was alone with the E-C. DURRR THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THEY WERE WINNING THE WAR!!! DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! But Enigma! I like the Federation better, that means they automatically are winning! Character shields! *Pew* *Pew**Pew**Pew**Pew**Pew**Pew* I can't hear you! Why is he bitching about low yeild weapons anyway? If I were the Klingons and I had a maneuverable ship, I wouldn't put more than a few photons on either. The situations where they are truly useful are rather limited. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 21, 2009 Read this PICARD (V.O.) Military log, Combat-date 43625.2. While investigating an unusual radiation anomaly reported by Starbase one oh five, the Enterprise has encountered what could almost be called a ghost from its own past... The Enterprise-C, the immediate predecessor of this battleship As we can see USS Enterprise D was investigating an unusual radiation anomaly. With this in mind it a lot safer to send one ship risk losing a longer number of starship it could have been danger Klingon trap for all the UFP known. It also very likely that USS Enterprise D. However you do ask interest question why the UFP did not sent more ship to help escort the USS Enterprise C back. I think three possible first war not going great for the UFP anyway you put it. UFP may need starship they have there right now defend outpost in case of a major Klingon attack. . It just is to riskily the UFP fear some starships may got ambushed by Klingon starships. It also possible by the time got there and got back USS Enterprise C and USS Enterprise D will already be at the Star base or almost there it would be a waste of time. First one I think at least part the answer to your question star base need help in order to be defended no matter what way put. If UFP wining or losing war they need shipyards to be defend against attack as will. Number two possible we can also rule out If UFP starbase can afford to send any other starship there we most remember that all starship would upgrade to about USS Enterprise D level in fire power and shields. So we can rule that possible out. Third one is hard to say we did not know distance USS Enterprise D is from that star base. It could have been a few days at top speed. It even possible UFP send reinforcements but would have arrived to late. However Klingons sending only three starship to face the USS Enterprise D is much hard to explain. USS Enterprise C shields are about half the straight of USS Enterprise D shields. It would have likely been a simple task upgrades her modern photon torpedoes. Read this suggestion the idea GEORDI Unless we were to re-arm them with modern... The two of them could have fought off the three birds of prey. Klingon take a big risk and risk three starships. Needlessly They could have wait for reinforcements unless war going much worst for them and they could not risk UFP got another ship. Read this to see got scrip from. url="http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/nextgeneration/season3/tng-315.txt"]My link[/url] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted December 21, 2009 ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, DODGER! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 21, 2009 That problem Klingon Birds of prey running out would not explain it. The Klingon Empire still has Klingon cargo vessel there is no good reason why they could not installed cloak devices on them and have then supply the Klingon Birds of prey with more photon torpedoes. For a group like Klingon Empire I would be surprise if they did not have them available. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted December 21, 2009 That problem Klingon Birds of prey running out would not explain it. The Klingon Empire still has Klingon cargo vessel there is no good reason why they could not installed cloak devices on them and have then supply the Klingon Birds of prey with more photon torpedoes. For a group like Klingon Empire I would be surprise if they did not have them available. Why don't you get this? The supplies could be needed elsewhere! The supply ships could be elsewhere! The ships could have been on their way to the unrep point! You seem to be thinking that the ships were sent by the Klingon's high command. There is no evidence of this. They could have been raiders, or they could have just picked up the Big Es and decided to attack a vulnerable target. Where do you get your knowledge of strategy? Video games where all of your missions are perfectly planned and come from command? ALL OF THIS WOULD BE OBVIOUS IF YOU HAD JUST DONE THE RESEARCH TO ANSWER THE FIVE QUESTIONS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 21, 2009 Here my evidence that these ship send by Klingon Command. TASHA I'm sure our coordinates have been transmitted to the Klingon command... we must not remain here. These are words of Tasha Yar. Look for this line if you do not believe me on this site. My link SO it would been very risk it come cost al three ships if USS Enterpise C was upgrade which we talk about . Klingon ship could not have put up better fight then that it could have easily come at the cost of three of the klingon ships and not one UFP ships. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted December 21, 2009 Here my evidence that these ship send by Klingon Command. TASHA I'm sure our coordinates have been transmitted to the Klingon command... we must not remain here. These are words of Tasha Yar. Look for this line if you do not believe me on this site. My link Its on your head to demonstrate that Tasha was correct. Not to mention that the Klingonshad time to act on the information. SO it would been very risk it come cost al three ships if USS Enterpise C was upgrade which we talk about . Klingon ship could not have put up better fight then that it could have easily come at the cost of three of the klingon ships and not one UFP ships. How the fuck is this relevant to the question at hand. You can win battles but lose wars. I have no doubt that the Enterprise-C would have been far deadlier than the E-D. If you had read any of my postings on usenet you would know that I have nothing but contempt for the TNG-era Starfleet. None of this is relevant to question of who is winning the war though. AND YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE FIVE QUESTIONS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 21, 2009 One main different was that U boat in World War 1 did not attack in groups while in World War 2 they did. In both World War 1 and World War 2 they sunk both military and civilian ships. While in throey Klingon Empire could have used simler tatics againist UFP cargo starships. I do not see it as likley. UFP territory is very big 8,000 light year across for Klingon pass though all that territory in 20 years question able at best it take USS Voyager about 8.75 from one end of UFP to other. That only go as fast Voyager can go none stop. The Klingon ships would be slower. It would be likley it would take the Klingon Empire ten years to across that amount space. We migth also want to ask the question of what Caption Pricard means by surrieder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 21, 2009 One main different was that U boat in World War 1 did not attack in groups while in World War 2 they did. In both World War 1 and World War 2 they sunk both military and civilian ships. While in throey Klingon Empire could have used simler tatics againist UFP cargo starships. I do not see it as likley. UFP territory is very big 8,000 light year across for Klingon pass though all that territory in 20 years question able at best it take USS Voyager about 8.75 from one end of UFP to other. That only go as fast Voyager can go none stop. The Klingon ships would be slower. It would be likley it would take the Klingon Empire ten years to across that amount space. We migth also want to ask the question of what Caption Pricard means by surrieder. Blah blah bullshit. TWsFV fdsvsdlkj ;aov ;lv na .,mnas .,vmnsfdjlroi a;l vnlasn. I smell of pee and poo. sdlvkhsdlkchslkdhsf7 ,bms b ;kjhksljhsdkm,b I'm fucking retarded. klsjhdclksd kl;vjn xlkjv ;ov jha;ljv .nv .,anv I can't seem to get the point. ds.ksdf. ;lsakf jv ;aoirgja a;slvd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 22, 2009 Blockade most are offen take part at sea and stop supplies from goting to and from the country that it is being done to. A Blockade runner is a ship try a evade a naval blockade. Commerce raiding are used to destory supplies ships from got to a country most offen geting the job done in the open sea. Will the nearest Klingon Empire outpost would be at most 62 light years away. We seen in Star Terk Enterpise Sector 31 communcation at greater distance with Klinogn Empire. I also take Tash side on this one because of her years of training security and tantics. She would have ahd to know what she talking about. As for the fact Klingon Empire able send starship over there is not suprising at all. If the Enterpise can trave Klingon home world in 4.5 days. I mean the Starship from Star Terk Enterpise. The Klingon Empire should able got starship full armed and readly to were USS Enterpise D was in a few hours to say the least. In 2151, it took four days for Enterprise (NX-01) to travel from the Sol system to the Klingon system. (ENT: "Broken Bow") My link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 23, 2009 This would give us a hint about what the USS Enterpise photon toropodes were able to deliver.Here is the evidence TASHA Captain Garrett says there were four Romulan warbirds. The Enterprise-C would be outmanned and outgunned... GEORDI Unless we were to re-arm them with modern... In case you do not believe me check this site and find two lines youself good luckMy link He could mean both phaser banks and photon torpedo but it likely be the case for one reason to upgrade phaser banks he would have to required the USS Enterprise C return to a starbase while upgrade photon torpedoes banks could in theory only require USS Enterprise D beam over a longer number of photon torpedoes to the USS Enterprise C. Fact that photon torpedoes could give the USS Enterprise C a fighting chance suggestion that would have the power destroy Romulan warbirds about 2 hits a piece. If could do the math I would but I am bad math. Jason L Miles I think you could do the math better then I can or someone else.I readly do not care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigma 521 Posted December 23, 2009 This would give us a hint about what the USS Enterpise photon toropodes were able to deliver.Here is the evidence TASHA Captain Garrett says there were four Romulan warbirds. The Enterprise-C would be outmanned and outgunned... GEORDI Unless we were to re-arm them with modern... In case you do not believe me check this site and find two lines youself good luckMy link He could mean both phaser banks and photon torpedo but it likely be the case for one reason to upgrade phaser banks he would have to required the USS Enterprise C return to a starbase while upgrade photon torpedoes banks could in theory only require USS Enterprise D beam over a longer number of photon torpedoes to the USS Enterprise C. Fact that photon torpedoes could give the USS Enterprise C a fighting chance suggestion that would have the power destroy Romulan warbirds about 2 hits a piece. If could do the math I would but I am bad math. Jason L Miles I think you could do the math better then I can or someone else.I readly do not care. You seem to be mixing technology and timeline. I can do that too! Imagine I gave the British some assault rifles and modern artillery cannons during the American Revolution! Dem British will win it this time! This shows how bad the Americans were about to lose! Dipshit. Don't compare modern tech to obsolete technology. Imagine the Romulans do the same thing! Then you are back to square one which is to spout gosfsd s kh sfouhyfj,mcv z.,mcbsduoihre ! Take that in your pipe and smoke it up your ass! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 23, 2009 I am not trying to get the strength of USS Enterprise D Yesterday Enterprise timeline photon torpedoes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 24, 2009 In the main timeline the Klingon K'Vort-class warship existed. Look at this Picture Now look this Picture The Klingon birds of prey look the same as once we saw Yesterday Enterpise. In Star Terk main timeline three of them equel two Romulan Warbirds. With the fact USS Enterpise D was only at most twice as strong at least when it came shields as the one in the main timeline. The two Romulan warbirds put together most likley equel to the USS Enterpise D in Yesterday Enterpise. Mean K vort class warship is about powerful as in the main univerce as in Yesterday Enterpise Univerce. Surrounded by the three Romulan ships... and suddenly the Romulan ships are surrounded as three Klingon Birds of Prey MATERIALIZE. 79 INT. MAIN BRIDGE (OPTICAL) WORF Klingon vessels are armed and ready, Captain. Tomalak blinks. PICARD What shall it be, Tomalak? Tomalak looks long and hard at Picard... TOMALAK You will still not survive our assault... STAR TREK: "The Defector" - REV. 10/18/89 - ACT FIVE 58. 79 CONTINUED: PICARD Nor will you survive ours, Commander. Shall we die together... ? My link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airlocke 12,014 Posted December 24, 2009 Jason, just shut the fuck up. You are spouting more completely irrelevant information, and have been thoroughly destroyed every step of the way. Just in case you did not know, refusing to admit defeat does not equal victory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason 27 Posted December 25, 2009 That were I disagree you in my option I known right now that does not mean much here because everyone disagree me this topic. The facts that Caption Pricard could say that three birds of prey have fire power to destroy both war birds say a lot with out USS Enterprise D help. It says that the Klingon Empire has made no major developments when came to weapons during 20 years of war. If anything weapons maybe even be a little weaken in then main timeline. Now tell me that is iirrelevant. I at least think it very relevant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
