UFP vs. Tyranids,

[enigma 521]

51 days for a major world. Federation colonies would take a lot less. Also, a Hive fleet would not just attack one planet but many. Look at the history of Tyranid attacks in the Lexicanum and you'll see how big these hive fleets are.

[enigma 521]

First the the main fleet does even come in till 50 day so colony be around for at least 50 days. Fact they crush all resistance in 51 day of attack. So differnt between so it might few hours differnt between colony major planetary system.

 

 

 

No a major world would be consumed by the end of the fifty days. Less for colonies. By the time the fleet arrives, there is no colony. Plus the Hive fleet can attack more than one planet at a time.

 

 

 

Pitting a Hive fleet against the UFP is very much unfair for the Federation. They'd be crushed in no time.

[Jason 27]

Yes what stop UFP starship using transporter beam in hundredths if thausand of photon toropoodes and then just run away leave all captil starship destroy. Also UFP colony able hold out longer you think. We no next to nothing UFP colony combat able for when attack special after star Terk Nemesis. They might well be able hold weeks even months again massive attack.

[the atom 0]

Yes what stop UFP starship using transporter beam in hundredths if thausand of photon toropoodes and then just run away leave all captil starship destroy.

 

 

 

Er....the fact that a single ship's complement is 250 photon torpedos or something like that?

 

 

 

Also UFP colony able hold out longer you think. We no next to nothing UFP colony combat able for when attack special after star Terk Nemesis. They might well be able hold weeks even months again massive attack.

 

 

 

We don't know, so therefore they must be awesome? That's stupid, much like everything else you type. Unless something changed drastically since DS9, Federation colonies won't last hours against even a trivial Tyranid invasion.

[Jason 27]

Er....the fact that a single ship's complement is 250 photon torpedos or something like that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't know, so therefore they must be awesome? That's stupid, much like everything else you type. Unless something changed drastically since DS9, Federation colonies won't last hours against even a trivial Tyranid invasion.

 

What evidence do have to back that claim of OK defense to say least. Since only example we get in DS9 colony defense along Klingon and UPF territory was Nor battle to strong. Which effective enough to stop Klingon us starship to provide fire support. Force them have to turn ground troops. settlements had shield to protect heavy artillery weapons klingon using. Why do you think shell stop because UFP knock place Klingon shelling hospital form.

 

 

 

Also UFP starship could like fit thousands photon torpedoes if they place cargo bays. Also do not now number photon torpedoes USS Enterprise D carries. At the espidoe they talk number had at the time.

[enigma 521]

Yes what stop UFP starship using transporter beam in hundredths if thausand of photon toropoodes and then just run away leave all captil starship destroy. Also UFP colony able hold out longer you think. We no next to nothing UFP colony combat able for when attack special after star Terk Nemesis. They might well be able hold weeks even months again massive attack.

 

 

 

You can't defeat the Tyranids that way. Their ships are friggin' huge! even ISDs are dwarfed by them and they have over a billion ships of various sizes available to them. Plus they will not be all at one place. They'll be attacking multiple planets. Spreading Stafleet's ships that thin will also leave them vulnerable by other powers that could attack at any time. Even piracy would go up exponentially with the lack of starships defending vulnerable colonies.

 

 

 

Not only that but the starships do not have enough time to constantly beam over torpedoes before being ripped apart and\or devoured.

 

 

 

We know plenty of examples of Federation colonies and pretty much all of them are useless against any space based threat.

 

 

 

You're dumber than Pinky and one-tenth as entertaining.

[enigma 521]

Er....the fact that a single ship's complement is 250 photon torpedos or something like that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't know, so therefore they must be awesome? That's stupid, much like everything else you type. Unless something changed drastically since DS9, Federation colonies won't last hours against even a trivial Tyranid invasion.

 

 

 

We do know. There has been countless TNG and TOS episodes in which the Ent crew beams down to some colony or another. Most seem to fit more in the 19th century than the 24th. The only colony that I know of that could present a minute possibility of a threat is that hive (not Tyranid) colony that Tasha Yar came from.

 

 

 

Also, the starships don't have the ability to mass beam hundreds of thousands of torpedoes into the Hive fleet before being destroyed. Stupid too. Pulling every starship that starfleet has to deal with the Tyranids will leave them defenseless for an attack on a different front. Q help them if the Borg decided to attack at that point.

[Jason 27]

That must stumped argument I ever heard. USA military base us tents and have must advance technology military equipment in World right now. You can not get more primitive then tents. While UFP colony as case to case basic on how colony look even saying true mean nothing at all. Also a good rick people choose home look part 18 century far design goes. They much more advance stuff anything I have available. I very modern day house for that matter. How loo tell millinery effective colony look is impossible and TNG tell even less since 24 century bunker look like tent when come holographic technology.

[Khas 12,158]

The only way the UFP could defeat entire hive fleets is if they start pumping out red matter weapons out the wazoo. If we place the Hive Fleet invasion in 2409, the UFP does have weaponized red matter. Any time before that though, and, well, tough luck.

 

 

 

If it is set in 2409, then the 'nids are REALLY going to hate going against the Romulans, seeing as they're now mass-producing Scimitar-class Warbirds, complete with thalaron weaponry. Due to the organic nature of Tyranid vessels, thalaron is going to melt them into goo.

 

 

 

But if the 'nids invade any time before the early 25th Century, well, the Alpha Quadrant is boned.

[the atom 0]

That must stumped argument I ever heard. USA military base us tents and have must advance technology military equipment in World right now. You can not get more primitive then tents. While UFP colony as case to case basic on how colony look even saying true mean nothing at all. Also a good rick people choose home look part 18 century far design goes. They much more advance stuff anything I have available. I very modern day house for that matter. How loo tell millinery effective colony look is impossible and TNG tell even less since 24 century bunker look like tent when come holographic technology.

 

 

 

So if I am understanding correctly........the UFP is 'advanced', so they win?

[Khas 12,158]

That's a better understanding than what I got out of his post.

[enigma 521]

That must stumped argument I ever heard. USA military base us tents and have must advance technology military equipment in World right now. You can not get more primitive then tents. While UFP colony as case to case basic on how colony look even saying true mean nothing at all. Also a good rick people choose home look part 18 century far design goes. They much more advance stuff anything I have available. I very modern day house for that matter. How loo tell millinery effective colony look is impossible and TNG tell even less since 24 century bunker look like tent when come holographic technology.

 

 

 

Of course it is a "stumped" argument because you're stumped to find a decent argument to reply. Yeah, the Federation is soooo advanced that Betazed, a majot Federation world was only defended by antiquated weapons platforms. You do not have any real proof to back you up whatsoever. You are making it all up.

[enigma 521]

The only way the UFP could defeat entire hive fleets is if they start pumping out red matter weapons out the wazoo. If we place the Hive Fleet invasion in 2409, the UFP does have weaponized red matter. Any time before that though, and, well, tough luck.

 

 

 

If it is set in 2409, then the 'nids are REALLY going to hate going against the Romulans, seeing as they're now mass-producing Scimitar-class Warbirds, complete with thalaron weaponry. Due to the organic nature of Tyranid vessels, thalaron is going to melt them into goo.

 

 

 

But if the 'nids invade any time before the early 25th Century, well, the Alpha Quadrant is boned.

 

 

 

Dammit! Did it again. I negged you by accident. I'll happily posrep you several times elsewhere. This is what happens when I try to neg all of Jason's posts. lol

 

 

 

You'll have to understand that the Federation will not immediately start using WMDs up front until it is almost way too late and even then it would probably be done by a covert faction. Case in point, the Dominion War. The Federation\Klingon\Romulan Alliance were still being ground up piecemeal and eventually were going to lose until Section 31 injected Odo with a virus and spread it to the rest of the Founders. Only from the threat of extinction did the Founders end the war. Up until then, there was no inclination for the Fed and co. to use WMDs to save themselves.

 

 

 

In the case of the red matter, all of it was gone with Old Spock and the Vulcans promised to not make anymore of it once the Federation found out that they were making it. Kiss it goodbye.

 

 

 

Even if you could use it, how will you be able to employ the red matter without destroying the colony worlds? The hive fleet is huge. Not all of it would be in one star system. To give you an idea the size of their fleets, here the pic of the history of Tyranid invasions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tell me you'll be able to defeat them?

 

 

 

Next is the use of bio-chemical warfare on them. How long do you think that stop them since they have history in dealing on both sides of bio-chemical warfare? Since this is UFP vs. Tyranids, how will the Romulans help if they are not the ones involved since they'd gladly stay out of the way until the Feds are gone and then maybe step in. Again case in point, the Dominion War.

 

 

 

It is a curb stomp through and through. At most the Feds would give the 'Nids a bloody nose.

 

 

 

Now, if this was the 31st century UFP, then it is a whole different ballgame.

[Khas 12,158]

Hive Fleet Behemoth was utterly destroyed by the Ultramarines at the Battle of Macragge, when one of their ships detonated it's warp drive, forming a warp rift that sucked in the Hive Fleet.

[enigma 521]

And where will the Feds get a 40K style warp drive? The example you mentioned only caused the Hive Fleet to be sucked into the Warp along with the Emperor Class Battleship the Dominus Astra detonating its warp drives. What they basically did was create a warp portal and sucked in the hive fleet.

 

 

 

How are the Feds to do that when they don't even know what the 40K warp is, let alone create a similar strategy?

 

 

 

Nevertheless, posrep since you are putting thought into this unlike Jason, who doesn't even know what thought is.

[Khas 12,158]

Subspace ruptures work in pretty much the same way, as we saw in Star Trek: Insurrection, with the Son'a isolytic burst weapons creating them. In the Voyager episode "The Voyager Conspiracy", tricobalt devices can also create subspace ruptures under certain conditions. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tricobalt_device

 

 

 

So, if the 'nids begin attacking the whole AQ, which they will, this would force the use of... unconventional weapons.

[enigma 521]

Subspace ruptures work in pretty much the same way, as we saw in Star Trek: Insurrection, with the Son'a isolytic burst weapons creating them. In the Voyager episode "The Voyager Conspiracy", tricobalt devices can also create subspace ruptures under certain conditions. http://en.memory-alp...ricobalt_device

 

 

 

So, if the 'nids begin attacking the whole AQ, which they will, this would force the use of... unconventional weapons.

 

 

 

But subspace weapons are banned under the Khitomer Accords, so no dice.

 

 

 

This scenario talks about UFP vs. the Tyranids with the 'Nids attacking a Federation colony. OP doesn't state that this is a Tyranid vs. Alpha Quadrant.

 

 

 

I've also mentioned the reasons why the Federation are very reluctant to use WMDs in the face of annihilation. On their own the Feds are unlikely to compromise on their principles. It would have to take an organization like Section 31 to even think of using WMDs.

[Khas 12,158]

True, but hopefully a war against an enemy even more voracious than the Borg would give the Feds the kick in the balls they need. Not to mention the alarm bells that would be given by EVERY Betazoid would hopefully tell them what they need to know.

 

 

 

As for tricobalt devices, they haven't been banned under the Khitomer Accords, since certain conditions are required to make them create subspace ruptures.

 

 

 

Section 31, however, plays by its own rules. There's really no telling what they'd do, since we know so little about them.

[enigma 521]

Except if you use the tricobalt devices to purposely cause subspace ruptures, you are making it a subspace weapon and therefore is banned.

 

 

 

Then again with subspace being fragile as it is (remember the ep where Picard was told that warp travel was destroying subspace?), would you really want to destroy or severely damage your only method of FTL?

 

 

 

The Dominion War caused more trouble for the Feds than the Borg and yet they still were losing.

 

 

 

Yeah using the Betazoids to scan a Tyranid Hive mind is a quick way to have them yank out their eyeballs. You really want to tap into a collective mind of billions, all wanting to devour you in oh so many ways?

[Khas 12,158]

Well, Section 31 would definitely ignore the Khitomer Accords in a scenario like this. They did nearly carry out genocide on the Founders. Since the 'nids pose an even greater threat, they would use any and all available resources. "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges", anyone?

[the atom 0]

That's not necessarily the question. Section 31 can generally be counted on to pull out all the stops regardless of what anyone else thinks. The real question is whether or not they can pull it off on the scale needed to make a difference.

 

 

 

If not, then more sensible option would be to organize a mass evacuation of as many Federation citizens as possible.

[Khas 12,158]

Hold on, I think we've forgotten something. Wouldn't the Tyranids be weakened by coming through the Galactic Barrier?

 

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galactic_barrier

[the atom 0]

Maybe a little, but I doubt it. Most of the damage mentioned in that wiki seems to come from interference with critical systems. E.g. like shields and warp cores. The Tyranids have none of these, and the exoskeletons on their bioships can handle much greater temperatures then what the Enterprise or Kelvans faced (as seen every time a bioship lasts for more then a millisecond against a lance turret).

[Khas 12,158]

Although, this is a surrounding energy field, meaning the 'nids ships are getting cooked from all directions. Even with shields, the Enterprise's hull heated up to 2,000 degrees. The unshielded organic matter of a Tyranid vessel would fare much worse against such heat. Not to mention that it says that the Kelvans' ships were eventually destroyed by the barrier.

[Jason 27]

Of course it is a "stumped" argument because you're stumped to find a decent argument to reply. Yeah, the Federation is soooo advanced that Betazed, a majot Federation world was only defended by antiquated weapons platforms. You do not have any real proof to back you up whatsoever. You are making it all up.

 

It took Dominion 10 hours to overpower Batazed defense with no starship available to help them out by the way.We know nothing size ten fleet or what starship part of it. We know nothing about terms which Batazed force surrender. It could been great deal ground combat go on and space combat go for Dominion over power them. Ground base defense installations, planetary shields and combat ground vehicle be used both sides. Dominion took ten hours over power shield knock the ground base defense installation with help ground troops and artillery then they force to surrender. Or their could have been orbit defense plate forms Jem Harder bug ship rammed them in-till made hole defense then reach planet over power planetary shields over power them force surrender. It possible just had destroy space station for that matter. Since all we know took them ten hours to do it wild guess work to what happened. If wish see evidence took ten look part say history and look As a result Betazed fell to the Dominion within ten hours

 

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Betazed

 

 

 

Also come major world UFP could easily deploy cloak self replication mines fields around world turn them on sensors pick up the Tyranids fleet.

 

Also when come to thalaron radiation UFP had done research in past. if wish see evidnce go to this site http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Thalaron_radiation

 

go to history and uses and then find.

 

Because of its lethality, thalaron research was banned in the Federation.

 

 

 

Even in practice like phase cloak device thalaron radiation is illigle to study hardly stop section 31 doing research on it. Also UFP desperation might well try deploy it like weapon to defend it self.