Questor 501 Posted July 12, 2010 Everyone here probably knows how I feel about the 10th Star Trek movie, but today I was asked that. This led to the question, "How would you have saved the franchise?" After thinking through all the pat answers we have, I realized that there was almost no way to do it, Return of the King was going to crush anything but an absolute home run. So, on the way home, I started thinking about what a home run might have been. Here's what I came up with. First, I imagine this would have to be much longer than a normal Trek movie, so I know there's a lot there. Second, I realize that the financial issues might have come up with this many guest stars. Third, this - just like Nemesis - would be the end, ending TNG's era just like ST6 ended TMP and TOS's. Fourth, Worf's reaction to Jadzia's death always bugged me, I suspect he has a lot of male chauvanist pent up guilt and anger over it. An opening voiceover by Jake Sisko, talking about how he ran into an block of missing time (ST2-4) in the history of the Enterprise. Jake goes to Worf, trying to get the records unsealed. Worf finds that even he cannot get access to the records in the Federation, but he is able to consult the records of the Klingons and find leads that point him to the right direction (the fact that the Whales went extinct long before Earth got decent spaceflight). Worf realizes that there is an easy method of time travel. Worf goes to Ambassador Spock for the methods, and convinces him to help him, maybe Spock echos the "needs of the one outweighed the needs of the many" line. The next part, call it the second act, is a chase, with Picard and Co in the Enterprise and Riker in another ship, chasing Worf and Spock in an old, beaten up Bird of Prey to Bajor. The focus of this act is on the TNG cast and the decisions they make with regard to helping or hindering their friend on his quixotic quest. At the end of the act, the are confronted by a Federation fleet led by Admiral Janeway. As the Enterprise and Riker place themselves between the fire of the fleet and Worf, we see the BoP warp around Bajor's sun. Next act begins on the bridge of the BoP, power is gone, but the fact that they succeeded is communicated. back to space, but now there is a massive fleet of dominion and cardassian ships where DS9 once was. moments later, a huge (5000+ ship) federation fleet arrives. It is led by Admiral Picard. Admiral Picard (with a massive scar covering half his face, and an eyepatch) leads from the U.S.S. Enterprise-E, with Riker as his Flag Captain. Sisko commands the battle line from a Soverign Class U.S.S. Saratoga, Dax is his Flag Captain. Worf commands a group of Defiant Class ships, and Tom Paris commands the fighters. This fleet attacks and destroys the wormhole, but the Enterprise and the Defiant (along with hundreds of other ships) are destroyed. When the wormhole is destroyed, Sisko disappears in a burst of light. Closing naration, over the commissioning of a new Enterprise by Jake Sisko. the new Federation president is Spock, and he tells the crew of the new ship. "These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise..." It could have been done really badly, but if it were done well, I think it might have had a shot against RotK. Done well, it would have tied up the entire TNG era. I came up with this in about 40 minutes in the car, thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted July 12, 2010 That's impressive. This is the movie that should have been made, but with Beavis and Butthead at the helm, likely wouldn't. I liked the scorched earth bit at the end. One thing I'm not clear on, why the change in the future with Admiral Picard? Was it because Worf went back to save Jadzia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted July 12, 2010 That's impressive. This is the movie that should have been made, but with Beavis and Butthead at the helm, likely wouldn't. I liked the scorched earth bit at the end. One thing I'm not clear on, why the change in the future with Admiral Picard? Was it because Worf went back to save Jadzia? The Picard thing comes from the fact that I love "Dark, Wartime Picard" he's a great character, and Patrick Stewart has the depths to make that kind of loss believable. An admirals log talking about the losses over the past years as the opening for the act would be insane. If Spiner didn't want to be a part, thats a perfect way to have him exit to. "One of the hardest losses was Data, who showed how far he had come by defending a landing zone till the end, far past the point where simple, machine, logic would have made retreat the easy answer." Basically, the idea is that because Dax doesn't die and the Dukat ark doesn't happen, the Dominion War never ends. Instead of peace and rebuilding, the war has torn the Federation to pieces, and this is the last, all or nothing shot to end it. The whole message being, what was the cost of Worf's hubris in changing the past? Basically, I didn't want this one to be free. I wanted them to screw up, to make all there wrong choices for all the right reasons, and instead of having fate make it right, Worf gets to watch and listen from a dying Bird of Prey, preferably with Spock saying something like, "Fascinating" as they realize the consequences. There are rarely consequences in Trek. ST2-4, ST6, and ST8 explored some of them, but this is a "consuquences of who we are" rather than "what we did". Spock could no more turn down that request than Kirk could Sarek's, he's too human. That's why I beleive that the Federation would do everything to hide what really happened. We've done bright, cheery and fun Trek. It doesn't seem to sell anymore, and the action set pieces would be required do to the matchup. You're up against Return of the King, anything short of epic will get you beaten down. Also, it sets up a new crew for further adventures without having to do a reset or have the baggage that DS9 and Voyager had. At the end there's about three of the heroes of Trek left alive, but instead of having a bridge fall on them, they all go out in a blaze of glory. Honestly, my favorite bit is the Jake Sisko thing. It gives a reason for the whole story, and provides a bookend. But the absolute best part - in my opinion - would be giving Leonard Nemoy the oppurtunity to tease the audiance one more time, giving that narration as a part of the show. Also, I would have anyone from the promotion department that puts anything from the last act in a trailer shot. Just like ST2 there needs to be a little mis-direction there. Anyone mentioning the deaths is also to be shot, and then have their body hung at the gates of Paramount as an example. Can you imagine the first night, when people go in cold, expecting the end of the second act to be the end of the movie, and Scarred Picard walks on screen? Hell, I'd go so far as to only show reviewers an alternate ending. Let only the MPAA see the real one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted July 12, 2010 I love it. And we saw that this kind of thing can work. Abrams destroyed Vulcan and got away with it, for God sake! Damn, you should pitch this to Paramount. It could still work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted July 12, 2010 I love it. And we saw that this kind of thing can work. Abrams destroyed Vulcan and got away with it, for God sake! Damn, you should pitch this to Paramount. It could still work. Maybe we can convince one of the better fanfic authors around here to write it. Can you imagine Berman's reaction? "You want to kill who? And bring back who?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted July 12, 2010 Last post I'm going to make in here tonight, and this one would qualify as fanservice, so I doubt it would happen. Wormhole explodes. The environment takes an otherworldly hue. Jake Sisko Voice Over: "When the wormhole exploded, space and time became distorted, deranged. Only two ships from within the maelstrom survived, Captain Crusher's Hospital Ship Mercy, and the Carrier Jonathan Archer. The survivors of those ships swear to this day that they shouldn't have survived. Dax orders the crew of the Saratoga to abandon ship, and is knocked to the ground by the blast from the wormhole. a few moments later, Admiral Sisko throws her into an escape pod. He says, "I'm not abandoning her again!" and launches it. Hue continues throughout. Torpedoe hits bridge of Enterprise, destroying it. Inside, Picard is thrown to the ground. A man in a maroon uniform grabs his hand, helping him up. Picard nods to him. The man says, "It's the least I can do, for the captain of the Enterprise." The man is gone in the next cut. Picard orders the Enterprise to cover the evacuees from the stricken Saratoga. The shuttles from the Mercy and the Archer are tractoring escape pods from the Enterprise and the Saratoga into the massive hangers on the Mercy. JSVO "Lieutenant Teagan, the only survivor from the flag bridge of the Enterprise, believes she saw James Kirk help Admiral Picard to his feet in the last moments before the Enterprise was destroyed." The Saratoga explodes, followed quickly by the Enterprise. The shuttles continue working while slightly out of focus ships, old ships - Connies, Mirandas, Excelsiors - continue covering the evacuation. JSVO "The shuttle pilots swear Starfleet ships of the past covered the retreat. Aboard the Mercy, when the chief surgeon collapsed, a man in white began giving orders. No one saw the man after the Mercy escaped the Maelstorm. Commander Leffler, Chief Engineer of the Archer - who recieved the Federation Medal of Honor for getting the Archer's power back online - claims that she didn't do it, that a crew of men in red tunics appeared, led by a man with a scottish accent. We may never know what happened in the maelstrom, crews did eventually find a Klingon Bird of Prey in solar orbit. There was the body of a Klingon and a Vulcan aboard. Now, we are building a new Enterprise - not a warship this time, but another exploration ship. It is being commissioned today by President Spock." Post Credit Sequence (leaks will be drawn and quartered): Picard appears in an all white space, and is faced by Q. "So Jean Luc, would you change anything?" "I already learned my lesson Q, I wouldn't change a thing." "On your head be it, Jean Luc." Q snaps his fingers, and the screen goes black. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted July 12, 2010 Questor, while I find your proposition intriguing, I'm not sure I'd want another time travel ST movie… And I'm also not sure Worf would really do that… Anyway, while Nemesis is far from perfect, I still liked it waaaayyyy better then the bore fest that was Insurrection. That movie will, in my book, always occupy a place next to ST V: TFF as the worst Trek movie ever… What would I have done different? Start with the Romulan Senate scene, again, and kill all the Senators using a similar weapon, except that this weapon also has an explosive part to send all the radiation outward quickly. No wedding ceremony, just mention it was a nice one to Will and Deanna when they get on the Transporter pad to embark on the Titan, and this would also serve to explain why Worf is there. Show us the fucking Titan… J Just a nice flyby with the two ships side-by-side… Then, as Worf is about to leave, have Picard receive a message from Starfleet Command (no Admiral Janeway, she should not have been promoted) saying the Romulans, due to internal instability, wish to re-negociate their current treaty with the Feds and the Klingons in order to receive help stabilizing their internal issues. Starfleet is weary, but the Federation wishes to help, and so they will send Picard, a man who has dealt extensively with Romulans. To aid him in this endeavor, they also send a full Ambassador with him, one that knows the Romulans well: Ambassador Spock. He will work as a "secret" advisor (since a lot of Romulans hate Spock for his reunification efforts). Starfleet asks that both the Titan and the E-E are to serve as Diplomatic envoy and escort to Romulus. Arriving there, they meet up with the Klingon Ambassador, General Marthok (with a Negh'Var and a Vorcha), and the Cardassian Ambassador, Gul Damar (with two Keldons). While in orbit of Romulus, the three "convoys" receive no communications for a few hours, making them suspect a trap. As they become edgy, they receive a signal telling them to beam down directly in the Senate, as anywhere else could be dangerous. All three "Ambassadors and their suites beam down, and Marthok is happy to see Worf again. The Romulan Senators meeting the group seem nervous. They barely have time to explain of the Remans failed "coup", of the assassination of most of the Senators using a biogenic explosive weapon, the Thalaron Cascade, and that they don't know who is behind it all… As the Senator starts to say something else, multiple explosions occur making many holes in the walls, and a lot of Remans emerge from the holes and attack the people inside. After starting out with a severe firefight, it quickly becomes a brawl, where the Klingons superior strength (shown this time, just like the Romulans' was in ST XI) and toughness helps them against the Remans. The fights would have been choreographed by Jeff Imada, the guy who did the Bourne fights The fight kills a few Redshirts, Deanna, a few Klingons, most of Damar's group (while wounding Damar), severely wounds Spock, and kills all the Romulan people, but the Romulan Ambassador is kept safe, Worf and Marthok having personally protected him while killing many opponents, before Worf slaps an emergency Micro-Transporter on him which beams them both on the E-E (it beams everything within a 1 meter radius). All the assailants lay dead or dying. They take a prisoner, while the Klingons kill the rest over Picard's protests, which go unheard. All Beam back to their respective ships, while the Romulan Ambassador is beamed back to the E-E. He asks to be brought to Earth for an emergency meeting, so that a new treaty may be signed quickly. He fears that the Remans may try to attack them en route, but Picard is confident that the present convoy, 6 vessels strong, with each government's most powerful vessels, is more then able to defend itself. They prepare to go, but Marthok asks if Worf could serve on the Negh'var as Tactical officer, since his best was killed on the planet below. Picard agrees, and they are under way at red alert. Riker still cannot get over the loss of Deanna, nor can anybody else. Riker becomes erratic in his command, making some of his crew question his judgement… While on route, the Romulan Ambassador is already hammering out the first draft of the new treaty with Damar (recovering from his wounds), Marthok and Picard, over view screens (in case of battle, all Captains want to be on their ships). While one such meeting is under way, the Scimitar decloaks amid the group, and fires at the E-E, though since the group were at Red alert, the shields are up and thus the first volley, which is stated would have destroyed a Keldon , "simply" does some damage to important power relays kicking the ship out of Warp, but still remaining combat ready (this surprises even the Klingons, thinking the Negh'Var to be the most powerful ship in the group). The rest of the group follow suite, and prepares to engage a re-cloaked Scimitar. The E-E receives a message from the Scimitar, and Find Sela's face when receiving it. She gloats about how, this time, she will finally defeat him because she doesn't have his weaknesses, i.e. his friends. We see the E-E evading at Impulse because while the Warp Core is in no danger of overloading, Geordi still has his hands full trying to re-instore Warp Speeds… At first, the fight is lopsided, because neither group can find the Scimitar, and they all fight separately, using their usual tactics. Riker is the worst one, having the Titan running madly after the Scimitar, firing every which way, with no tactic whatsoever, being mad with rage and grief. While the "fleet" does get a few hits in, once in a while, it is clear they will eventually lose, because the Scimitar has all the advantages. Picard devises a new tactic, which he sends through a Data encoded message to all the other ships: all ships are to flank the E-E and protect it from the Scimitar's wrath, while the E-E effects repairs, and prepares all their weapons for one single salvo of massive proportion… Riker snaps out of it, and all his years as a Starfleet officer bring him back with determined fury, so he gets his ship in line and prepares for the inevitable with his business face, even though tears still run freely on his cheeks… As the last Keldon gets destroyed, opening a path for the Simitar, the E-E unleashes everything on it, and damages it immensely, but it still advances fast on the E-E, as if to ram it, and Sela transmits to the Picard "My life, for your life!"… Marthok sees this, and in Klingon says "It is a good day to die!", to which Worf simply replies, with grim determination "Kaplah!"… The Negh'var intercepts the Scimitar, both ships crashing into each other in a fiery ball of fire (yes, still fire in space, but it is plasma fire J)… Picard and co sit still, having lost another friend, and we barely hear Picard saying "what you call weakness, I call strength!"… At long last, we see the rest of the convoy, a very badly damaged E-E, a badly damaged Titan, and an almost crippled Vorch'a arrive at Earth. Picard and co beam to Starfleet headquarters with the Romulan Ambassador, and we see the Federation president about to welcome the Romulan Ambassador, when he slips his hand in his vest, and produces a small detonator. As we see the Thalaron Cascade effect beginning, everything comes down to slow-mo, as Data pushes his speed to its utmost, runs to the Ambassador, and activates the Micro-Transporter still on him. The Transporter beams them both to the E-E, which then explodes in orbit. Shock and sorrow everywhere, and then we understand that all of this was simply a ruse to lure all the top dogs of the Federation in one place to get them. The movie ends with Picard giving a eulogy for all the lost comrades, and then we see the credits roll… That's how I would have done it… No dune buggy, no fucking B-4... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted July 12, 2010 Good. Except I'd replace Damar with Macet, considering that Damar was killed by the Jem'Hadar in "What You Leave Behind". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted July 12, 2010 Good. Except I'd replace Damar with Macet, considering that Damar was killed by the Jem'Hadar in "What You Leave Behind". You're right, didn't remember that... But who the Cardassian is doesn't matter, only that they're represented... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted July 13, 2010 Questor, while I find your proposition intriguing, I'm not sure I'd want another time travel ST movie… I always liked the well done time travel stories. And this was different enough that it could pass as unexplored territory. And I'm also not sure Worf would really do that… Why not? While he may know academically that time travel can result in bad things happening, none of them have ever seen it. Hell, we don't even see consquences of First Contact, which was decidedly on the "interact with the past" side. The big reset button gets used to many times, there's too many last minute fixes. Given what Worf has seen, what everyone in the Federation has seen, outside of some of the best episodes of the series that is ("Yesterday's Enterprise" and "City," but in neither case does anyone actually know what happened), time in Star Trek is fixed, and of the "this has already happened" repairing paradox variety. Worf thinks, and has reason to, that if he succeeds, it's because he already did, and if he fails, all he's lost is his life. My favorite Star Trek episode is "City on the Edge of Forever," and I think that influenced my thinking. Also, I like yours, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted July 13, 2010 I always liked the well done time travel stories. And this was different enough that it could pass as unexplored territory. Which is why I found it intriguing... Why not? While he may know academically that time travel can result in bad things happening, none of them have ever seen it. Hell, we don't even see consquences of First Contact, which was decidedly on the "interact with the past" side. The big reset button gets used to many times, there's too many last minute fixes. Given what Worf has seen, what everyone in the Federation has seen, outside of some of the best episodes of the series that is ("Yesterday's Enterprise" and "City," but in neither case does anyone actually know what happened), time in Star Trek is fixed, and of the "this has already happened" repairing paradox variety. Worf thinks, and has reason to, that if he succeeds, it's because he already did, and if he fails, all he's lost is his life. Possible, and can be implemented in a fresh way, but I guess I'm just tired of the time travel episodes, even though I did like ST XI, I guess because things don't get reset at the end... Just like your story... Hhhmmm... My favorite Star Trek episode is "City on the Edge of Forever," and I think that influenced my thinking. Definetely one of my favorites too. Fav moment: when kirk has to let Edith Keeler die... Also, I like yours, too. Thanks... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted July 13, 2010 OK, edit that ending. This might be better: "So Jean Luc, would you change anything?" "Q, I knew a man - for far to short a time - who lingered on. Maybe another Jean Luc Picard, in another universe, could be happy behind a desk, while the younger men take the ships out, but not me, not anymore. Not after all of this." "I could change a single thing, and all of this death, all of this suffering, would be wiped from history." "At what cost? Are you here just to torment me again?" snarls Picard. "No Jean Luc, I'm here to say goodbye to a friend." For that last line, Q is the audience, saying goodbye. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyralak 12,068 Posted July 13, 2010 That ending would be perfect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted July 13, 2010 Yup, that ending would be great from the audience and Q's stanpoint... I still like my version better... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted August 2, 2010 Ray, I think you mixed up FC and INS, as there was more action in FC then INS... But INS still sucked donkey balls... And it was possible to do a good movie, just look at ST XI. The franchise was still tired, but Abrams and co brought freshness to it by doing things the right way, i.e., destroy something important and no fucking reset button... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Questor 501 Posted August 2, 2010 The franchise was still tired, but Abrams and co brought freshness to it by doing things the right way, i.e., destroy something important and no fucking reset button... Exactly. They destroyed Vulcan and killed Amanda. I killed almost every main character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praeothmin 532 Posted August 3, 2010 Exactly. They destroyed Vulcan and killed Amanda. I killed almost every main character. And I only killed half... What I mean is that ST : NEM could have been good even with its actual story premise, if they's actually done things that mattered, and weren't going to get reset at the end of the movie. Even if that had simply meant no "B-4" to bring back Data, it would have been better... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
