Dogfight of the millennium

[Khas 12,158]

In this battle, we have Spock piloting the Jellyfish (his vessel in ST: XI) going up against Luke in his X-Wing. Their mission? Simply disable the other vehicle, not destroy it. Yes, this is Alternate-Reality Spock as of 2258. Now, who wins?

[Tyralak 12,068]

In this battle, we have Spock piloting the Jellyfish (his vessel in ST: XI) going up against Luke in his X-Wing. Their mission? Simply disable the other vehicle, not destroy it. Yes, this is Alternate-Reality Spock as of 2258. Now, who wins?

 

 

 

This isn't even a contest. Maybe an X-Wing Vs. the Delta Flyer would be, but the Jellyfish? Jellyfish pwns X-Wing.

[Questor 501]

This isn't even a contest. Maybe an X-Wing Vs. the Delta Flyer would be, but the Jellyfish? Jellyfish pwns X-Wing.

 

 

 

Look, even assuming I disagreed with you, calcs or it didn't happen.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Look, even assuming I disagreed with you, calcs or it didn't happen.

 

 

 

Do you actually need calcs for something like that? It's the equivalent of this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Going up against this:

 

 

 

[Questor 501]

Do you actually need calcs for something like that? It's the equivalent of this:

 

 

 

<snip>

 

 

 

Going up against this:

 

 

 

<snip again>

 

 

 

Because you say so?

 

 

 

And this is mostly because I'm bored: Once again, assuming I disagreed with you (which I really reserve judgment on), on ASVS, you were expected to be able to back up your arguements no matter how obvious. If I said the sky was green, and you asked me to prove it, I'd better have a couple cites on water vapor diffraction and oceanic reflection ready - or at least a picture.

[Questor 501]

And further, what the fuck is this doing in the "Other Vs Debates" forumn?

[Tyralak 12,068]

Because you say so?

 

 

 

And this is mostly because I'm bored: Once again, assuming I disagreed with you (which I really reserve judgment on), on ASVS, you were expected to be able to back up your arguements no matter how obvious. If I said the sky was green, and you asked me to prove it, I'd better have a couple cites on water vapor diffraction and oceanic reflection ready - or at least a picture.

 

 

 

Well, considering we don't really know shit about the Jellyfish, I'm mostly fucking around, making assumptions.

[Tyralak 12,068]

And further, what the fuck is this doing in the "Other Vs Debates" forumn?

 

 

 

Then move it for Chrissakes. Or I will.

[Questor 501]

Then move it for Chrissakes. Or I will.

 

 

 

I did... I put that post in just before I moved it.

[Mith 0]

Probably the Jellyfish. It seems to be a long range scout ship, which is probably going to be vastly superior to a fighter, given Trek capabilities and Wars capability.

[Praeothmin 532]

See, in this particular case, I'm not sure I'd give it to the JellyFish.

 

In fact, contrary to Tyralak, I'd say the curbstomp would be between the Delta Flyer, a small vessel capable of taking multiple hits from Capital ship weapons and continue to function, and the X-Wing, a small snub fighter designed to fight low/un-shielded Tie fighters and the like.

 

 

 

The Nu-Trek vessels, while mentioning shields, don't show much in terms of resistance.

 

the firepower displayed by the Jellyfish wasn't that impressive on the drill, and compared somewhat to what fighters seemed to dish out in RotS or RotJ, and the X-wing has way more maneuverability...

 

 

 

Tough call...

[Questor 501]

Probably the Jellyfish. It seems to be a long range scout ship, which is probably going to be vastly superior to a fighter, given Trek capabilities and Wars capability.

 

 

 

I repeat my demand of Tyralak.

[Khas 12,158]

And further, what the fuck is this doing in the "Other Vs Debates" forumn?

 

 

 

I was tired last night, and I'm so used to posting things in "Other Vs Debabtes" that I didn't catch my mistake until it was too late.

[Tyralak 12,068]

I repeat my demand of Tyralak.

 

 

 

Pretty much all we know about the Jellyfish. Basically not much. So any discussion we have would be assumptions based on a few minutes of screen time.

[Tyralak 12,068]

I was tired last night, and I'm so used to posting things in "Other Vs Debabtes" that I didn't catch my mistake until it was too late.

 

 

 

Meh. It's not the end of the world. It only takes a second to move anyway.

[Questor 501]

Pretty much all we know about the Jellyfish. Basically not much. So any discussion we have would be assumptions based on a few minutes of screen time.

 

 

 

That was poorly worded on my part. What I meant is that I wanted him to put up or shut up, you had already said that we didn't know much.

 

 

 

Sorry.

[Tyralak 12,068]

I'm with Questor on this. Calcs or it didn't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

If we can determine the acceleration limits of the X-Wing (which, BTW, we have) then we can do the same for the Jellyfish. Basically, we can quantify the Jellyfish, so there's no reason why we shouldn't, so there's no reason why we can't have actual quantitative data to argue this.

 

 

 

 

 

C'mon, I thought this was ASVS.

 

 

 

Fine then. I'll get the vidclips. I have to rip them from the DVD, so this may take a bit. The most amazing thing about this, is that somehow, something has sparked RayCav's interest to post about something other than perverted Hentai shit.

 

 

 

And why does it remind me of this:

 

 

 

[Kor_Dahar_Master 0]

Why do we need to figure out how fast the actual jellyfish was when we already have plenty of examples of acceleration from younger ships?.

 

 

 

From "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" along with other movies and series we can say that trek ships can go from virtually stationary to c or there abouts faster than it can be actually said.

[Praeothmin 532]

Why do we need to figure out how fast the actual jellyfish was when we already have plenty of examples of acceleration from younger ships?.

 

 

 

From "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" along with other movies and series we can say that trek ships can go from virtually stationary to c or there abouts faster than it can be actually said.

 

 

 

Because the fight is between the Jellyfish and an X-Wing, so other ships don't count...

 

And if they could indeed accelerate like that in ST, then how come they never did it to evade torpedoes?

[Tyralak 12,068]

I have the vidcaps from the Jellyfish, but YouTube is being a bunch of cunts and keeps taking them down. So, we're trying to get the Veoh embedding to work.

[Kor_Dahar_Master 0]

Because the fight is between the Jellyfish and an X-Wing, so other ships don't count...

 

 

 

 

 

And if they could indeed accelerate like that in ST, #

 

 

 

then how come they never did it to evade torpedoes?

 

 

 

Why would the jellyfish be slower at impulse than a conni that was 100+ years older?.

 

 

 

 

 

They can accelerate like that in ST watch "star trek:The motion picture" as the enterprise leaves earths orbit,

 

 

 

because torpedoes can accelerate faster.

[Praeothmin 532]

Why would the jellyfish be slower at impulse than a conni that was 100+ years older?.

 

 

 

 

 

They can accelerate like that in ST watch "star trek:The motion picture" as the enterprise leaves earths orbit,

 

 

 

because torpedoes can accelerate faster.

 

 

 

Except for the times they go to Warp, when have we seen them accelerate from 0 to c in less time then it takes to say it?

 

 

 

And when have we seen this kind of acceleration from torpedoes?

 

Didn't the E-A escape a torpedo by going to Warp in ST V : TFF?

 

Wy didn't the torpedo then accelerate to catch them?

 

 

 

You do realise that the kind of acceleration you speak of would have ships look, from our POV, exactly like when they're going to Warp, don't you?

 

So again, when have we ever seen ships do that in ST while going at sublight?

 

 

 

And please show us where in the movie (no need for a clip, I know the kind of work involved in ripping and posting, just mention the scene and the time if possible) the Jellyfish showed that kind of STL acceleration?

[Kor_Dahar_Master 0]

Except for the times they go to Warp, when have we seen them accelerate from 0 to c in less time then it takes to say it?

 

 

 

Kirk puts the earth on rear view as they leave orbit at impulse, watch how fast the planet receeds.

 

 

 

From this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

To this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

In around 4 seconds.

 

 

 

Now depending on its orbital distance light takes 1.3ish seconds to travel to the moon and the earth having almost 4 times larger diameter than the moon would look quite a bit bigger from the moon than the moon looks from earth. So from the second image we can reliably say that in the 4 seconds they had traveled at least 3 times the orbital distance of the moon.

 

 

 

And when have we seen this kind of acceleration from torpedoes?

 

 

 

TNG:- Half a life

 

 

 

We see them firing torps into a Red giant suns core, a red giant easily has a diameter of earths orbit of our sun.

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't the E-A escape a torpedo by going to Warp in ST V : TFF?

 

 

 

Yup.

 

 

 

 

 

Why didn't the torpedo then accelerate to catch them?

 

 

 

Dunno.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do realise that the kind of acceleration you speak of would have ships look, from our POV, exactly like when they're going to Warp, don't you?

 

 

 

So again, when have we ever seen ships do that in ST while going at sublight?

 

 

 

That would require a stationary pov.....or a stationary (relativly) object to measure the visual effect from, like the enterprise rear view while pulling away from the earth in TMP i posted above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And please show us where in the movie (no need for a clip, I know the kind of work involved in ripping and posting, just mention the scene and the time if possible) the Jellyfish showed that kind of STL acceleration?

 

 

 

We never see the jellyfish start moving from a standstill and go to its top non warp speed so we cannot do that (i just watched all the clips of it), however it is mentioned during the kirk/old spock mind meld that it is their fastest ship, so my bet would be its faster than a 100+ yrs older conni.

[Praeothmin 532]

Kor, you do realize the calculations you gave means they were actually going faster then light at that point.

 

Without Warp, that is impossible, so either they weren't going that fast, and the visuals are fubared, or they were going to low warp (we did hear Sulu call a Warp 0.something once) that, since they aren't going FTL, looks like STL travel...

 

 

 

As we discussed a SFJ, the "Half a Life" "incident" does not make the average for standard torpedo speeds, and we've never seen such speeds in the majority of combat in ST.

 

 

 

As for the comparison between the Jellyfish and an older Connie, NuTrek has shown things way different then OldTrek, like shielded vessels getting hull damage even from low speed, low kinetic impact, which we never see in OldTrek, TNG, or DS9.

[Kor_Dahar_Master 0]

Kor, you do realize the calculations you gave means they were actually going faster then light at that point.

 

Without Warp, that is impossible, so either they weren't going that fast, and the visuals are fubared, or they were going to low warp (we did hear Sulu call a Warp 0.something once) that, since they aren't going FTL, looks like STL travel...

 

 

 

They can get to at least warp 0.5 with full impulse but the speed is achieved by the impulse engines NOT the warp engines.

 

 

 

"Full impulse" always seemed to me to be more in regards the rate of acceleration to the top speed the ship had available more than a definition of the top speed itself, but it maybe kinda both in a weird trek way.

 

 

 

As we discussed a SFJ, the "Half a Life" "incident" does not make the average for standard torpedo speeds, and we've never seen such speeds in the majority of combat in ST.

 

 

 

We only see the DS pop one planet........how often does a event need to happen for it to be canon?.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the comparison between the Jellyfish and an older Connie, NuTrek has shown things way different then OldTrek, like shielded vessels getting hull damage even from low speed, low kinetic impact, which we never see in OldTrek, TNG, or DS9.

 

 

 

I suppose i could make a reasonable argument that the jellyfish is not a nutrek ship but a highly advanced oldtrek ship so the TMP images can be applied as a comparison to that particular ship and only that ship (as neros got squooshed) in nutrek.