How bad war going for Klingon Empire (TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise

[Jason 27]

Yes very funny now lets got back on topic here little evidence that deep space nine can power latest phasers. Expain to me why Deep Space Nine did not have the most powerful phaser around. While starships like the Defiant-class, Prometheus-class and Sovereign-class had much more powerful phasers explain this to me .

[Questor 501]

Yes very funny now lets got back on topic here little evidence that deep space nine can power latest phasers. Expain to me why Deep Space Nine did not have the most powerful phaser around. While starships like the Defiant-class, Prometheus-class and Sovereign-class had much more powerful phasers explain this to me .

 

 

 

What's your evidence?

 

 

 

Also, what are your responses to my non-technological reasons why the war must be fairly evenly matched?

[Jason 27]

Be sides the fact USS Enterprise D when it fire all of it phaser Kligon K'Vort-class battle cruiser and shortly before hand hit ten photon torpedoes. While Deep Space Nine shields and phaser banks much better with out question then what USS Enterprise D had in normal universe. With this logic put forward in this universe Star bases phaser would have many times the strength of USS Enterprise D and be able deliver much more damage to a enemy starships. In this logic if kligon were to destroy more then half of much more half fleet doing so.

[Jason 27]

We also might want remember these birds prey have good shields but weak weapons. One of them hit the USS Enterprise C 2 time before USS Enterprise D got way firing. Suggestion only heavy starship Kligion Empire had availed to send against the USS Enterprise D ships design to carries troop into battle. The shields on these ships very strong be able to withstand 10 photon that another power destroy Klignon ship normal universe at the time. Since Deep space nine destroy a Klingon Vor'cha-class with few photon torpedoes. It also possible it most power class starship Klingon Empire had a viable at the time. UFP class starship more power. Another possible Klingon Empire already ran out starship more power then these birds prey send against USS Enterprise D.It also be very unlikely that it only Galaxy class starship in the fleet. By fact one Commander Riker said that UFP could sure us another ship even if she old suggestion that UFP fleet most made out of Galaxy class starship may be Nebula class starships guess time design them.

[Questor 501]

How does any of that pertain to the question of how the war is going?

 

 

 

If this thread was created as another way for you to wank to the Federation, I'll shut up, but I made a number of points about how there is no way that the war has progressed to the degree it has without both sides being evenly matched.

 

 

 

Star Trek does not have any mechanisms to force a planet-hopping war other than relatively evenly matched combatants.

 

 

 

If you can come up with a technological reason why either side had to fight a traditional war, rather than a modern "air superiority" war, please state them.

[Jason 27]

I think many reason that both sides needed to fight a lot on the ground.Klingons did not seem to depend lot air supterity when came to Nor the Battle to the Strong. DS9 to death another one. Beside are these not the same Klingon want to border a UFP starship that was going to explode in a few minuets at most.

 

I Search thow Star Terk TNG if you want will.

[Jason 27]

If air superiorly was all the Klignon need sending ground forces during neither Star Trek Nor the Battle to the Strong. Watch this Youtube video in see Klingon attacking inside a UFP Medical base with their soldiers not combat aircraft. My link

[Questor 501]

If air superiorly was all the Klignon need sending ground forces during neither Star Trek Nor the Battle to the Strong. Watch this Youtube video in see Klingon attacking inside a UFP Medical base with their soldiers not combat aircraft. My link

 

 

 

ETAAA: You understand that I'm not talking about true air superiority, but about methods of attack, right? Also we never saw the outside of the outpost, so how do you know that orbital or even atmospheric bombardment is not happening.

 

 

 

How do we know that the situation is analogous? ETA: Why did the Klingons want that outpost? Was there a reason they could not use orbital bombardment? Did they have capitol ships available, or were the only forces in the area troopships?

 

 

 

ETAA: You understand that the kind of homeworld strike I'm talking about would require a fleet larger than the one in Sacrifice of Angels, right?

 

 

 

By the way, didn't I already mention that wars between relatively equally matched opponents are different than wars between mismatched opponents? Or are you saying that the Klingon empire has the same advantage over the @ Federation that you are saying that the YE Federation had over the YE Klingons?

 

 

 

Added a few more preliminary questions with edit.

[Jason 27]

UFP Medical base did need it shield up all the time other wise Klingon would be able to destroy it with need to go in. Or why would they need to keep shields up around the settlement. I think that hint of that they have starship viable that has some heavy fire power.

 

My link

[Questor 501]

Ummm....

 

 

 

Could you give me some help on this?

 

 

 

Without you using quote, I don't know which part of my message you are responding to. Also, once again, you have not addressed all of the issues I raised. Are you conceeding the ones you did not address?

[Jason 27]

I am trying knock out one by one I think most effective way doing it. Now lets got to straight UFP weakness and strength. Klingon ground force gourd soldiers mostly likley better train in hand to hand combat UFP. Everyone USS Enterprise D during Yesterday Enterprise was carries a hand phaser that Klingon were will know for sending boarding parties. Or why would UFP waste it time have every crewmember carry a hand phaser a round. UFP is better comes to treating it soldiers when got hit by any weapon. UFP also builds more starships a year then the Klingon Empire does.

[Questor 501]

I am trying knock out one by one I think most effective way doing it. Now lets got to straight UFP weakness and strength. Klingon ground force gourd soldiers mostly likley better train in hand to hand combat UFP. Everyone USS Enterprise D during Yesterday Enterprise was carries a hand phaser that Klingon were will know for sending boarding parties. Or why would UFP waste it time have every crewmember carry a hand phaser a round. UFP is better comes to treating it soldiers when got hit by any weapon. UFP also builds more starships a year then the Klingon Empire does.

 

 

 

What does the issue of hand phasers to everyone mean in this context? If the UFP wanted to improve its phaser usage, especially since they are a replicator society, I would be more impressed by a pistol-grip and a trigger guard, also some sights. The fact that none of those phasers have sights implies that they are VERY short ranged weapons. Even modern pistols have sights.

 

 

 

Where is your evidence of Klingon medical treatment?

 

 

 

Where do you get the idea that the federation builds more starships a year than the Klingon Empire?

 

 

 

It is generally more interesting if you answer all points raised. Otherwise it looks like you are ducking or conceding.

[Jason 27]

What does the issue of hand phasers to everyone mean in this context? If the UFP wanted to improve its phaser usage, especially since they are a replicator society, I would be more impressed by a pistol-grip and a trigger guard, also some sights. The fact that none of those phasers have sights implies that they are VERY short ranged weapons. Even modern pistols have sights.

 

 

 

Where is your evidence of Klingon medical treatment?

 

 

 

Where do you get the idea that the federation builds more starships a year than the Klingon Empire?

 

 

 

It is generally more interesting if you answer all points raised. Otherwise it looks like you are ducking or conceding.

 

Klingon Empire would have to nearly a decade rebuilding according to this My link. and this My link and this My link.While it seem UFP can build a longer number of starships then Klingon Empire can.

 

 

 

To see why I think UFP medical treament is better read this My link and this My link.

[Questor 501]

Klingon Empire would have to nearly a decade rebuilding according to this My link. and this My link and this My link.While it seem UFP can build a longer number of starships then Klingon Empire can.

 

 

 

The first link is a link to memory alpha (a wiki) referencing a comment by the always honest Section 31 about the DS9 Klingon war. The burden is on you to show that that is relevant to Yesterday's Enterprise. EDIT TO ADD: It would also be a good idea to demonstrate that the guy from Section 31 wasn't lying at the time.

 

 

 

The second link is another link memory alpha, providing a history of the Klingon Empire, which doesn't discuss the alternate reality AT ALL.

 

 

 

The third link is, yet again, a link to Memory Alpha, and this time it references STVI! I assume this is regarding the whole "effect of praxis's explosion" discussion. You have not shown that it is in any way relevant to this discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

To see why I think UFP medical treament is better read this My link and this My link.

 

 

 

 

That is either the most dishonest debating I've ever seen, or one of the most appalling displays of ignorance in history. Both of those links refer to ENTERPRISE!

 

 

 

You still have not addressed any of the many other points I have brought up in this discussion, and now you are citing completely irrelevant items to support your thesis. At a certain point, concession is honorable.

[Jason 27]

Here another one showing how poor Klingon medical able is. If UFP medical able was not greater then the how come in Star Trek All Good things the Klingon empire in middle bloody conflict with UFP was willing to allow UFP medical starships to come into their territory to help deal with a little Plague.My link. How do we have no way of knowing if the guy from sector 31 is lying or not however. However I have anohter question for you. What would he gain by lying about the Klingon Empire able to make war? I can see nothing that he would gain by telling the doctor a lie about it. I see that in this case as unlikely at best. My link

[Tyralak 12,068]

That is either the most dishonest debating I've ever seen, or one of the most appalling displays of ignorance in history. Both of those links refer to ENTERPRISE!

 

 

 

Well, even though Enterprise wasn't the best Trek series, it's still part of established canon. And actually, it holds the distinction of being the only series to be relevant in BOTH universes.

[Questor 501]

Well, even though Enterprise wasn't the best Trek series, it's still part of established canon. And actually, it holds the distinction of being the only series to be relevant in BOTH universes.

 

 

 

TOS and TMP-era is also relevant to the Yesterday's Enterprise universe, but what I was getting at was the multi-decade gap in time, during which technological exchange could have occurred.

 

 

 

If I used Enterprise weapons to calculate the yield of TNG weapons, I'd be just as out of line.

 

 

 

ET fix spelling.

 

 

 

ETA: You could also argue that most of TNG is relevant as well. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor (timely reference), the US went to war with what it head. Massive technological changes would not have happened that fast. I would argue that we'd see the Defiant sooner, and possibly the Sovereign class replacing the late-Galaxys as the Galaxy is relegated to a troop carrier role and replaces the late Ambassadors.

 

 

 

ETA: Well, fuck. I didn't realize the timescale we were talking about here. With a twenty year time gap, the existence of the Galaxy class AT ALL makes no sense without the effect I am talking about. I would suspect that the Galaxy class had been on the drawing boards for a long time, and when the war started, they put all their eggs in that basket, and started to build the Galaxies. Technological progress would be all over the charts though.

 

 

 

The time gap also proves my point about the powers being evenly matched though.

 

 

 

THERE IS NO WAY A WAR LASTS THAT LONG UNLESS THE POWERS ARE AT ALMOST 100% PARITY.

[Tyralak 12,068]

OK. I misunderstood your point. I thought you were claiming that ENT shouldn't be considered because it wasn't a good series.

[Questor 501]

OK. I misunderstood your point. I thought you were claiming that ENT shouldn't be considered because it wasn't a good series.

 

Oh no, the general lack of quality (and I'd say that some parts of Enterprise were among the best Trek ever made), is completely beside the point.

[Jason 27]

We never see the Klingons bring Medical kit any battle seen in Star Terk. That alone shows how little Klingon value medical care. The Klingon sick bays in Star Terk search for Spock very smell, cramped and dark. The three things did not have in sick bay. As real nightmare for any poor doctor that has us it for medic care. Even a Defiant starship has more space and lights in it sick bay then a Klingon bird of prey has in its. My link

 

 

 

UFP could build more Klingon starships then how come they take few decades for them to rebuild according to Sector 31. If you suggestion he lying I think that very unlikely. He was trying to explain Doctor why He wants his help when it came to spying on the Romulans.

[Jason 27]

Here is more evidence to find out way I think Klingon Medical care worst any think UFP read it please.My link

 

 

 

Another think do not forget that Bashir had all longer amount of UFP classified information that most likely included information about UFP allies Klingons and Romanluns as will. So he would have know if that guy from sector 31 was lying or not. SO read this as will My link

[Questor 501]

I love how you ignore anything that you can't refute.

 

 

 

Here is more evidence to find out way I think Klingon Medical care worst any think UFP read it please.My link

 

 

 

A) A medic is not a doctor, and in most cases only has relatively basic medical training. Think EMT rather than surgeon.

 

 

 

The Klingon Military, as far as we know, is made up of only Klingons. Why would a field medic be given any training in the medical treatment of someone that they are unlikely to have to treat.

 

 

 

Another think do not forget that Bashir had all longer amount of UFP classified information that most likely included information about UFP allies Klingons and Romanluns as will. So he would have know if that guy from sector 31 was lying or not. SO read this as will My link

 

 

 

 

My main point was not that the Section 31 agent could have been lying, but that it had nothing to do with the situation at hand.

[Jason 27]

First read this take close look Klingon bird of prey sickbay My link. Klingon sick bay sound nightmare on it own right. I thankful father that is a doctor has good lighting more then one can say the Klingon Bird of prey sickbay. Read this to find out more about happen when a Klingon can not walk My link.

[Questor 501]

Am I to take it that you have conceded all points but the medical ones, and that you have conceded my point about a field medic? If so, lets finish this quickly so I can mount your bloody head on my trophy wall.

 

 

 

If you have not conceded those points, I would like a rebuttal of a few more in your next post.

 

 

 

First read this take close look Klingon bird of prey sickbay My link. Klingon sick bay sound nightmare on it own right. I thankful father that is a doctor has good lighting more then one can say the Klingon Bird of prey sickbay.

 

 

 

Shock! Horror! The sickbay of a small ship with a crew of less than 50 has a cramped sickbay!

 

 

 

Seriously, ships that size in real world militaries don't HAVE sickbays.

 

 

 

Edit to add: You will now provide evidence that Klingons do not see further into the infrared range than humans.

 

 

 

Read this to find out more about happen when a Klingon can not walk My link.

 

 

 

 

Do you really not understand the difference between culture and knowledge?

 

 

 

Also: Holy unsourced statements, Batman! That article is amazingly ignorant. Although I guess I should expect the misuse of the word evolution, the only people who know less about it than creationists being trekies after all.

[Jason 27]

So you are suggesting to me that Klingon Empire build massive shipyards in middle of a major war. That sounds unlikely to say the least. If the Klingon going to have to spend a decade rebuilding fleet after nearly half century of peace with UFP. Klingon did not have the able before the peace treaty to build all these ships. You are suggestion that some how Klingon during a major war with the UFP somehow how had the able to build starship at much more starship.

 

 

 

First that starship going to be middle so bloody battles it is going to lose at least few men no matter how put it. It also not going to be out for days or weeks but months no modern military ships has that few crews and is out there that long or injured to say the least.Watch this video see why rule Klingon anything better human.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbW7NCkDQDE