scvn2812 504 Posted December 24, 2012 At this point, I think I'm calling it a day. I'm not going to type out arguments until my fingers bleed to a guy who responds with penis jokes. I'll save my energy for Brian. He actually responds to direct questions and generally does a good job of invoking enough hard evidence to prove me wrong rather than refusing to concede demolished points and running for the next cartoon that somehow contradicts a movie with real people. I may not like all of his conclusions but I usually have an uphill battle to fault his reasoning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 24, 2012 Thats against targets with deflectors, which shunt off attacks. Then theres jamming, then theres the fact ships can move. The same tl's may have light hour minute/hour ranges against planets as EU suggests. Now address the points in my post please. Jamming my ass, we see that the gun turrets are manually operated. They have a visual-based targeting system. Or maybe you're forgetting the trench run scene in ANH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 24, 2012 At this point, I think I'm calling it a day. I'm not going to type out arguments until my fingers bleed to a guy who responds with penis jokes. I'll save my energy for Brian. He actually responds to direct questions and generally does a good job of invoking enough hard evidence to prove me wrong rather than refusing to concede demolished points and running for the next cartoon that somehow contradicts a movie with real people. I may not like all of his conclusions but I usually have an uphill battle to fault his reasoning. Considering I've seen Brian's points demolished before... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 24, 2012 This, and internal force fields might strengthen the hull making conventional materials more protective than you would first expect. A regular E-11 can vaporize a few dozen kilos of iron in one shot after all. When have we ever seen that in the movies? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 520 Posted December 24, 2012 When have we ever seen that in the movies? The grate scene. And we could not *see forcefields* but considering we have accelerations performed by the executor that would require its hull to be thousands of times stronger than steel... X wings with their foward acceleration too, and the fact we might expect them to fare well vs blasters. But whatever, I'm going let you calm down for a while lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 520 Posted December 24, 2012 Considering I've seen Brian's points demolished before... I have read the SFJ thread about his website.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 24, 2012 I love how this thread turned from finding out an ISD's mass, based off of a canon source, rather than just by assuming it's made of the same stuff a modern battleship is made of, to this chaotic clusterfuck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 24, 2012 The grate scene. And we could not *see forcefields* but considering we have accelerations performed by the executor that would require its hull to be thousands of times stronger than steel... X wings with their foward acceleration too, and the fact we might expect them to fare well vs blasters. But whatever, I'm going let you calm down for a while lol. You are aware that iron's vaporization point is more than 3000 C, and that we'd see them with intense burn marks if the metal really was vaporized? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 24, 2012 Hell, if it really was vaporized, the iron would have become a glowing yellow cloud that would have rapidly covered our heroes, and left them burning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 520 Posted December 24, 2012 Yea that was discussed at length in te phaser thread. I was arguing that too, but could not do any math to demonstrate it. Eventually math was done to suggest the vapour would cool enough as to not be fatal, and for our heroes the temperature may briefly be comparable to that of an oven. The remaining bars were sagging and blackened. Even if it were melted, we would still be looking at over a hundred megajoules, which could seriously harm a conventional titanium plane. Probably take it down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 24, 2012 However, we don't see a glowing yellow cloud. We see white smoke. Actually, we wouldn't be looking at such high energy levels. Metals have low heat capacity, meaning it doesn't take much energy to raise their temperature. It takes less than 1/10th the energy needed to raise iron's temperature by 1 C than it does to raise water's temperature by the same amount. Let's see, it takes 350 joules to raise 1 kg of iron's temperature by 1 C, and that crate seemed to be about 2 - 5 kg, so, going by this, it would take just over a megajoule to heat a kg of iron to its boiling point. Which places - if the crate was vaporized - the energy level of the blaster between 2 and 5 megajoules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ali-Sama 5 Posted December 24, 2012 Hey, B5 is 5 miles long, and stated to be 2.5 million tons, making it half the mass of the Great Pyramid. Babylon 5 is a space habitat. Most of it is living space and empty space. It is a cylinder. It does not need military grade armor nor anything beyond steel as a hull. It just needs to have enogh hull to avoid small impacts and radiaiton. That is ridiculous. A VSD would be less than 1/4 the mass of Enterprise-D, when it is easily 5 times larger. It really depends. The density of the materials. A car made out of solid gold vs a bus made out of aluminum. Which would be more massive? Well, you can do a respectable calculation or be ridiculed for being ridiculous. Your choice. I'm just observing. It is ficiton. You cannot compare some things in ficiton to reality. The crew numbers in trek are silly for the size of the ships. Compare them to any modern ship. Also why you no add me on face book? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T'lonak 500 Posted December 25, 2012 Ah okay. What do you make of all the screen evidence then? I'm not seeing anything that could possibly amount to a High-End Base Delta Zero. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 25, 2012 If anyone says "oh, it requires a lot of energy to heat up the hulls", I am going to re-activate the brig and throw them in there. Metals require very little energy to heat them up. As stated earlier, iron requires less than 1/10th of the energy needed to heat it by one degree Celsius than water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 520 Posted December 25, 2012 It does require a lot of energy to heat up their hulls, they can withstand blaster fire taking no real damage. I don't know where your getting those figures? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 520 Posted December 25, 2012 I'm not seeing anything that could possibly amount to a High-End Base Delta Zero. Propulsion requires extreme power generation capabilities which suggests very high firepower. Weapons systems and engines are both powered by the main reactor. Besides which there are other examples in expanded canon that requires the high firepower. The in film asteroid examples sets only a lower limit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khas 12,158 Posted December 25, 2012 Unless you take the mass-manipulation, which Ships of the Galaxy states they do have, into account. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
