I crunched some numbers...

[Khas 12,158]

For the energy needed to accelerate an ISD to maximum acceleration. Here's what I did:

 

Using the one million ton figure for the mass of the Victory-class Star Destroyer mentioned in The Force Unleashed's novelization, I took the measurements of the two ships - the ISD being twice as long as the VSD, but the scale of the two ships' dimensions being the same, I assumed that the ISD had eight times the volume of the VSD, and assuming similar construction materials, also had eight times the mass. This lead to a mass of eight million metric tons. A fair amount. I then took the max acceleration figure from the New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels - 2300 Gs, just so you know - and crunched away.

 

First, I converted Gs to Newtons. There are 9.81 Newtons in 1 g, so I multiplied 2300 by 9.81, and got 22,563 Newtons. Using the Second Law of Motion, I multiplied 22,563 by 8 billion (one thousand kilograms per ton), and got 1.80504E14 Newtons. To convert Newtons to Joules, I divided this number by 5 (5 Newtons equals one Joule) and got 3.61008E13 Joules. Converting Joules to Tons (Explosive Force, not Mass), I divided by 4 billion (4 gigajoules = 1 ton). My final answer? Just over 9 kilotons.

 

Now, I'm not sure if I've screwed up somewhere, and if I have, please correct me.

[Vince 520]

2300 is for the far larger Executor isnt it? If not ignore what im about to say. You should use 3000G, the ISD is like the venator in that it can outrun blockade runners and other smaller craft. THe isd is shown to do this in the films, the VStar is said to do this in the ICS, making them comparable.

 

Anyway, with 8mill tons and twenty-three hundred G i arrived at 5.52e22W, which is in the teratons each second. A spreadsheet did this for me though, im too lazy

 

Acceleration in meters per second per second, multiplied by exhaust velocity (very close to light speed in this case), multiplied by the ships mass, is the method i used to find power output.

I shared a spreadsheet earlier on the forums which does these calcs for you, if you plug in certain parameters.

 

The e25th power watt figure mentioned in Brians video is calculated using that method, assuming the ISD is over a billion tons and capable of 3000G. To be exact, it is about 4.4 times the volume of a Vstar, and the Vstars mass can be derived from the ICS. Multiplying the Vstars mass results in 1.736 billion tons. I think this works out at something like 8 metric tons per cubic meter or something, the EU states durasteel and other armours are very dense, very heavy. Then theres the fuel which might out mass the ships deadwieght by orders of magnitude, which might be somewhat reduced by the manipulation of mass mentioned in the Starships of the Galaxy book.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Vince

[Vince 520]

So to clarify: acceleration multiplied by C multiplied by mass = power output. This assumes exhaust velocity very close to C, which is the case in SW, and ignores any inefficiency.

[Khas 12,158]

Nope. The acceleration given in the New Essential Guide is 2300 Gs. I was working under the assumption of 8 million tons. Why? See my reasons above. I highly doubt that an ISD is a thousand times as massive as a VSD.

[Khas 12,158]

I nabbed the mass of the VSD from the novelization of TFU, which, according to Word of Lucas, is part of the official story of Star Wars, like TCW. Whenever two different sources give different stats, I choose the higher canon, in this case, the TFU novelization.

 

As for the Executor's acceleration, it lists it as 1230 Gs.

[Khas 12,158]

Total power, going by your formula, should actually be 5.5E21 watts.

 

And that's assuming no inefficiency, which, in reality, is impossible.

[Vince 520]

Could u supply the quote from TFU please.

A VStars volume according to darkstar is 15,838,619 cubic meters, with the 1 million ton mass this would work out as a 63 kilogram per cubic meter density. This makes the ships lighter than styrofoam. One possible rationalization might be, that this is the deadwieght of the ship, when the fuel still out-masses it by orders of magnitude. Its better to harmonize sources where possible. This is a very sturdy rationalization for conflicting stated masses i think.

 

It isn't 5.5E21 watts, it is 5.52E22 watts (just over 13 teratons per second), perhaps you used G's rather than meters?

 

 

Thanks for clarifying 2300G's.

[Khas 12,158]

I used Gs.

 

And I don't have the TFU novelization on me. It was loaned to me by a friend a while ago, and I gave it back when I was done.

 

Yes, a million tons is light, but not the lightest thing out there. Babylon 5 was stated in the intro to be 2.5 million tons. It would have to be made of used tissues, considering its 5 miles long.

[T'lonak 500]

Sci-fi Writers have no sense of scale...

[Brian Young 11,994]

8 million metric tons is ridiculous. An ISD would be less than twice as massive as the already-too-light Enterprise-D (4.5 million metric tons). 1.8 times, actually.

Use the dimensions and mass of a real life warship and do it again.

[Khas 12,158]

I know it's light. However, the novelization of TFU gave a mass to the VSD of 1 million tons, and I simply multiplied the mass by eight to match the volume ratio.

 

Although, according to the SW Encyclopedia, durasteel is ultra-lightweight, so 8 million tons might not be as unreasonable as it sounds at first.

[Brian Young 11,994]

This is from Wikipedia, and shows the stats of an Iowa Class battleship.

Using the 52,000 tons mean wartime mass, avoiding the later higher numbers, and using the overall dimensions (ignoring the tapered hull), I find the ship weighs 482 kilograms per cubic meter.

[Brian Young 11,994]

I know it's light. However, the novelization of TFU gave a mass to the VSD of 1 million tons, and I simply multiplied the mass by eight to match the volume ratio.

 

Although, according to the SW Encyclopedia, durasteel is ultra-lightweight, so 8 million tons might not be as unreasonable as it sounds at first.

 

That is ridiculous. A VSD would be less than 1/4 the mass of Enterprise-D, when it is easily 5 times larger.

[Khas 12,158]

Hey, B5 is 5 miles long, and stated to be 2.5 million tons, making it half the mass of the Great Pyramid.

[Brian Young 11,994]

Of course, I'm assuming the 52,000 tons is in pounds. If we assume those are metric tons, we'd be looking at 531 kilograms per cubic meter. And this could be doubled, given the tapered hull both horizontally and vertically.

[Brian Young 11,994]

Hey, B5 is 5 miles long, and stated to be 2.5 million tons, making it half the mass of the Great Pyramid.

 

Well, you can do a respectable calculation or be ridiculed for being ridiculous. Your choice. I'm just observing.

[Khas 12,158]

I used kilograms for the calcs.

[Khas 12,158]

Well, you can do a respectable calculation or be ridiculed for being ridiculous. Your choice. I'm just observing.

 

So, taking a canon source is ridiculous? Okay then.

[Khas 12,158]

Hell, it's in the Season 1 intro that B5's mass is 2.5 million tons.

[Brian Young 11,994]

I thought we were talking about Star Wars. Silly me.

I thought you were trying to debunk the numbers by applying a rational calculation to prove it is wrong. Silly me.

Seriously, if you spin the numbers to favor your desired outcome, aren't you just making a mockery of it?

 

Keep these two fact in mind.

1. Realistic numbers for the acceleration is around 10,000g. This is demonstrated by Dooku's escape in AOTC, Kenobi's escape in ROTS, and a few other times, but those are hard to dispute. Note events on the ground when Dooku's escapes and moons literally shrinking in the background when Kenobi's escapes.

2. Using the numbers in the AOTC ICS, it would take 10 quadrillion Acclamators to equal the firepower of the Death Star. General Dodonna compared this firepower to half the Starfleet. Note this is a separate calculation, not related to starship acceleration, and not dependent on some novel adaptation of a video game. It involves indisputable video evidence from the films. So, either the Empire has 20 quadrillion ships, or the numbers in the book do not represent a high level of firepower for the Imperial fleet. Read: conservative numbers in ICS.

[Brian Young 11,994]

And to counter that, you use a ridiculous mass from a novel adaptation of a video game, which is so ridiculous it is absurd, and even miscalculate the math. Using these ridiculous figures, I find 2E18 watts, which is 485 megatons per second, not a few kilotons.

[Khas 12,158]

I'm going by the stats the sources gave. They said the following things:

 

- That durasteel is ultra-lightweight.

 

- That a Victory-class Star Destroyer has a mass of a million tons. Given that durasteel is said to be ultra-lightweight, there is some credence to this theory.

 

- Using basic math to find the VSD-to-ISD ratio (1:8)

 

- Going by the 2300 Gs source for acceleration given in the NEG. Although, different ships had different rates of acceleration.

 

- Admiral Motti had said that "This station is now the ultimate power in the universe", implying that the Imperial fleet paled in comparison to the Death Star. Given the fact that Han, who, according to the Han Solo Trilogy, was once an Imperial officer, said that the entire Star Fleet couldn't blow the whole planet away, the only way to reconcile this with General Dodonna's statement is that the Death Star's other weapons emplacements have a greater firepower than half the star fleet. In fact, the Death Star novel confirms this.

 

Brian, this isn't a groupthink site like SDN or SonicBabble. The ICS is not the end-all, be-all when it comes to SW. Do you know what some of the comments on other sites have been about your analyses? To put it kindly, they say they're flawed. To be more accurate, they range from "Hello 2002! If it weren't for the date I would have assumed that that this was from ten years ago. It's like he's been in cryo-stasis for that whole time" to "LOL, has he ever opened a physics book before?"

 

I've tried to be nice. I've tried to avoid posting stuff like this. Hell, I even flat-out laughed at the idea that you were SciFi Fan/StarWarsStarTrek, and rejected it. But to deny multiple sources in favor of one isn't scientific. It's anti-science. It's a creationist technique.

[Khas 12,158]

And to counter that, you use a ridiculous mass from a novel adaptation of a video game, which is so ridiculous it is absurd, and even miscalculate the math. Using these ridiculous figures, I find 2E18 watts, which is 485 megatons per second, not a few kilotons.

 

So I was using internet sources to find how to convert newtons to joules. I'll admit I screwed up there.

 

But really, are these mass figures any more absurd than some of the other ones we see in sci-fi? Or are they only super-absurd because SW is your pet franchise?

[Captain Seafort 17]

Admiral Motti had said that "This station is now the ultimate power in the universe", implying that the Imperial fleet paled in comparison to the Death Star.

 

In 1945 nuclear weapons were the ultimate power of this planet. That doesn't mean that a conventional bomber raid was anything to sneeze at. Or inferior, given what happened to Tokyo a few months earlier. It simply means that a nuke-armed bomber make more of a mess than a conventional bomber.

[Khas 12,158]

I'm not saying the Imperial Navy is weak. I'm just saying that the Death Star was so far above anything ever built before that it seemed like that it (the navy) was.