Captain Seafort

This is part of the reason I made the suggestion. If you ignore the TNG-era, the debate suddenly becomes a lot more interesting, because instead of Voyager taking decades to get home, or kt-Mt torpedoes, you're looking GO24, or the "Obsession" AM change putting a decent-sized hole in a planet or the E-nil treating a 1000-ly trip as an inconvenience in "That Which Survives".

How about just going back to basics? Wars Canon: Original Trilogy Trek Canon: Original series and first four films.

Then we go back to the asteroid calcs, knock a zero off the Falcon's resilience, and are still left with kiloton-ish TIE lasers, a couple of orders of magnitude more than the shot that slapped the Yangtze Kiang silly in Battle Lines

Then how exactly do you explain the Falcon doing precisely that in ESB? A figure that implies TIE firepower roughly equivalent to the multi-GJ bare minimum demonstrated by X-wings when strafing the first Death Star. EDIT: Even if you only go by the asteroid vapourisation TL estimates, that still means the Falcon shrugged off hundreds of kilotons in that shot, which still implies kiloton-range TIE weapons .

When you say "contradicted", do you mean that the Falcon cannot withstand megaton-range hits, or that TIEs do not pose a threat to the Falcon? Both of these are clearly demonstrated in the films I referenced.

The satellite that shot down the Yangtzee Kiang went from dormant to high megawatt-range output in a few seconds, as did the one that destroyed the Rio Grande's probe. It didn't have time to build up a charge of more than low GJ range before firing. ESB establishes that the Falcon can survive low megaton-range hits. ANH establishes that TIEs are a threat to the Falcon after scoring dozens of hits. Ergo, TIE laser fire is almost certainly low-mid kiloton range. BS. The runabout probably has the firepower to destroy a Defender, but that's far from cut-and-dried, and the reverse is certainly true. I expect the battle would be won by whoever lands the first solid hit, and I expect that to be the Defender. While the Danube-class are manoeuvrable, they aren't anywhere near as good as TIE fighters. Not surprising, given that their role is closer to Lambda-class than a TIE.

No they can't, any more than the Falcon can tangle with SW capships. Runabouts can survive incidental fire, and their weapons have been seen to be powerful enough to destroy a Jem'hadar fighter (not exactly the most powerful ships around) if, and only if, they have detailed targeting advice from a senior Vorta. Runabouts can be very badly damaged by low-GJ range weapons fire (from Battle Lines), and starfighter laser cannon are at least that powerful (from ANH). As I said in the other thread, even small numbers of bog-standard TIEs are a threat to the Falcon, which can withstand low megaton-range shots, so a Defender should be able to take on a runabout on at least even terms.

There are also repeated shield flashes from two of the fighters hit by the Falcon's guns during the escape from the Death Star. I wouldn't even say with confidence that they're weaker than an X-wing's shields - there are examples of both types being hit and blowing up with no shields flashes at all.

A common, oft-repeated error, proved wrong by watching the engagements between the Falcon and various TIEs in ANH and ESB. Brian looked at this comprehensively in some of his earliest videos.

An Oberth's defences are utter crap - Kruge's BoP destroyed the Grissom with one torpedo accidentally, and I see no reason whatsoever for a science vessel to have any sort of armour. It might not even have any weapons, as I'm not aware of any example of them being shown firing, although the presence of one at Wolf 359 may indicate otherwise. It does, of course, have the ability to choose whether or not to engage, due to having FTL. A TIE, on the other hand, definitely has shields (albeit probably fairly weak ones), and its lasers are, with sustained fire, capable of punching through the Falcon's shields (seen in the ANH engagement). As the Falcon is capable of surviving at least one multi-megaton TL hit (seen in ESB), and even capship PTs of several decades after the Kruge-Grissom encounter are of the same strength or less (from Pegasus and Rise), this leads me to conclude that even a flight of TIEs would be a threat to an Oberth, let alone the wing-strength group proposed. Scenario: This would, obviously, occur with the Imperial forces on the tactical defensive - any ship or group of ships carrying that many fighters would almost certainly have the firepower to blow away a defending Oberth with ease. The TIEs must therefore be guarding something, having either been left there by a ship that has since departed, or based locally, on the ground on in a space station. The most likely use of something as weak as an Oberth would be to deploy or extract special forces, or perhaps personnel from a base left behind in a general withdrawal. Conclusion: TIE fighter victory. Either they destroy the Oberth, or the Oberth runs away and leaves the TIEs in control of local space. It is highly unlikely that the Oberth would be able to destroy all the TIEs, as would be required prior to lowering shields to conduct transporter operations.

Fair enough, although to be fair to the GG, it was one of the first, if not the first of that seemingly-endless string of increasingly-silly plot devices, and one of the more plausible and interesting. It certainly wasn't as bad as the Sun Crusher.

You're too late for the Galaxy Gun, unless you don't count the functionally identical Starkiller Base. I'd like to see two things: 1) The awe and terror-inspiring majesty of a Base Delta Zero on the big screen 2) The even more awe and terror-inspiring majesty of the Errant Venture. In the appropriate colour.

So we have an outlier or two. I assume you're talking about this, which seems to make HTLs about as powerful as the famous blaster rifle grate shot. That doesn't change the overall conclusions any more that ST5 gives Trek hyperdrive-scale strategic mobility or MJ-scale torpedoes. The "new cannon" still show ISD light guns vaporising asteroids in milliseconds, big chunks of the Tantive IV in seconds, and knocking the Falcon off its axis. It still shows AT-AT guns likewise vaporising big chunks of the Hoth shield generator. It still shows the Death Star blowing Alderaan apart at close to lightspeed. Well? Don't keep us in suspense.

Doesn't really help when the Empire can deploy similar numbers (as at the Battle of Coruscant) and Imperial light guns are about as powerful as the best the Feds have (low Mt LTLs shown against the Falcon in ESB vs maybe-Mt PTs in The Pegasus and Rise, and the low-Mt deflector dish weapon derivable from BoBW and Deja Q.) 1) Do you have any evidence that the online game is cannon, given how consistent Trek has been that only live-action TV series and movies count? 2) Assuming the existence of such evidence, I fail to see how the fact that Trek capital ships are starting to approach the size of Imperial escorts helps them. The problem with the scene is that it directly contradicts everything we've seen concerning capital ship beam weapons against rock. In A Matter of Time, Legacy and Inheritance, phasers were drilling phaser-width tunnels through rock at about 100m/s, and suffering worrying feedback from ore concentrations in the latter. In The Pegasus, Riker didn't even consider using phasers against the asteroid, instead advising using hundreds of PTs even through TDiC-scale phaser firepower would have destroyed it in a fraction of a second. Likewise, Voyager used one of her "irreplaceable" PTs to destroy the Rise asteroid, even though it was a fraction of the size of even the Pegasus asteroid. Where have we ever seen anything close to that sort of firepower in the TNG era? The only thing I can think of is the planet-cracker from Obsession and The Immunity Syndrome, and frankly, given that TOS repeatedly demonstrated the sort of speeds that would have had Voyager home in months, I'm not convinced its capabilities can be reconciled with the TNG-era.

But STV is still occassionally shown on TV, whereas the Holiday Special has all but vanished off the face of the Earth, so V has more of an effect.