Khas

Even more updated version:

New element list, clockwise from top: Spirit, Water, Air, Wood, Sulfur, Salt, Fire, Earth, Shadow, Metal, Light, Void.

Admittedly, the Arwing IS superior to a lot of fighters in Star Wars, with maybe only the X-Wing, B-Wing, or TIE Defender being superior... but Arwings are in a much, much more limited supply than the others, so sheer numbers could win out.

Another universe Star Wars should be able to beat is Starfox.  Admittedly, not TOO hard with that one...

A Klingon Bird-of-Prey has a length of about 110 or so meters, while the Millennium Falcon is 35 meters long.  Not even close.

Actually, according to the (admittedly non-canon) novels detailing TOS and "The Lost Era" (everything between Star Trek VI and "Encounter at Farpoint"), not all Klingons were affected by the virus, with the "HemQuch" and "QuchHa'" sub-species: the HemQuch were those who retained their head ridges, while the QuchHa' were those who lost theirs.  Maybe that will finally become canon now.

There's also this little scene from "Rogue One":

And given that we know an ISD has a mass of 40 million tons.

So we have an outlier or two. I assume you're talking about this, which seems to make HTLs about as powerful as the famous blaster rifle grate shot.  That doesn't change the overall conclusions any more that ST5 gives Trek hyperdrive-scale strategic mobility or MJ-scale torpedoes.

 

The "new cannon" still show ISD light guns vaporising asteroids in milliseconds, big chunks of the Tantive IV in seconds, and knocking the Falcon off its axis.  It still shows AT-AT guns likewise vaporising big chunks of the Hoth shield generator.  It still shows the Death Star blowing Alderaan apart at close to lightspeed.

 

 

Well?  Don't keep us in suspense.

It's actually the Turbolasers vaporizing the asteroid  that's the high-end outlier now, since we saw this scene in "Ghosts of Geonosis":

Here we see the B-Wing protoype carry out a weapons test:

Notice how Hera says that it "has the firepower they need" - after making that small explosion..

Here we see it in action against light cruisers:

We also know from the Enterprise episode "The Expanse" that photonic torpedoes - the predecessors to photon torpedoes - could have their yield modulated.  From "knocking the antenna off a shuttlepod" at the low end to "putting a three-kilometer crater in an asteroid" at the high end.  I'd assume photon torpedoes would have similar "modulating" capabilities, as it would explain a LOT.

We also know that the Death Star's superlaser only reached full power after the kyber crystals - which draw energy from the Force - were put into its dish (courtesy of both "Rebels" and "Rogue One".  And it wasn't until the First Order discovered how to do it that they had hypermatter reactors small enough to fit inside starships, IIRC - the Death Stars used hypermatter reactors, but nothing else did at the time.

And according to the new canon Star Wars: Force Commander game, we learn that durasteel is "stronger than steel, but weaker than titanium".

And I think I was going to say "ever since the Disney Apocalypse, things haven't looked as good for SW 'versus' wise."

Star Wars would also beat The Expanse... but then, since The Expanse is limited to the Sol System, that might not be saying too much.

Doesn't really help when the Empire can deploy similar numbers (as at the Battle of Coruscant) and Imperial light guns are about as powerful as the best the Feds have (low Mt LTLs shown against the Falcon in ESB vs maybe-Mt PTs in The Pegasus and Rise, and the low-Mt deflector dish weapon derivable from BoBW and Deja Q.)

 

 

1) Do you have any evidence that the online game is cannon, given how consistent Trek has been that only live-action TV series and movies count?

 

2) Assuming the existence of such evidence, I fail to see how the fact that Trek capital ships are starting to approach the size of Imperial escorts helps them.

 

 

The problem with the scene is that it directly contradicts everything we've seen concerning capital ship beam weapons against rock.  In A Matter of Time, Legacy and Inheritance, phasers were drilling phaser-width tunnels through rock at about 100m/s, and suffering worrying feedback from ore concentrations in the latter.  In The Pegasus, Riker didn't even consider using phasers against the asteroid, instead advising using hundreds of PTs even through TDiC-scale phaser firepower would have destroyed it in a fraction of a second.  Likewise, Voyager used one of her "irreplaceable" PTs to destroy the Rise asteroid, even though it was a fraction of the size of even the Pegasus asteroid.

 

 

Where have we ever seen anything close to that sort of firepower in the TNG era?  The only thing I can think of is the planet-cracker from Obsession and The Immunity Syndrome, and frankly, given that TOS repeatedly demonstrated the sort of speeds that would have had Voyager home in months, I'm not convinced its capabilities can be reconciled with the TNG-era.

Didn't you watch the "Rebels" episode "Zero Hour", and how HTL bombardment delivered, at most, gigajoules of energy into the target during the orbital bombardment?  The Disney canon is very, VERY different from the old.  Granted, Thrawn WAS under orders to take the Rebel leaders alive, but if the HTLs really did have even kiloton-level firepower, he could have just targeted areas near the shield, and let the debris from the explosions overwhelm the shield generator.  To say nothing about how an Imperial light cruiser was split in half by sub-kiloton warheads in "Ghosts of Geonosis" - and the explosion occurred in-atmosphere, so there's no real way to get around it being that low.  It was also mentioned in the new-canon novel "Tarkin" that the devastation caused to the planet Murkhana occurred after YEARS of orbital bombardment, and that planet still supported some native multicellular life, and its oceans and atmosphere were mostly intact.  And then there was the time the B-Wing prototype used an experimental laser canon to one-shot an Imperial light cruiser.  Yeah, ever since the 

As for Star Trek Online and its being canon, more info can be found here: http://forums.asvs.org/index.php?/topic/1148-star-trek-online-and-its-canon-status/- basically, Star Trek Online is "soft canon" - meaning that it's canon unless contradicted.  The ships, technologies, and stories are canon, but the game mechanics and player actions aren't.  So, since the 10 km weapons-range shown in-game is a game mechanic, it's not canon.  Star Trek Online is the only bit of Trek media that falls into soft-canon.

Heh.  Most people are biased in one way or another. Don't feel bad, this wasn't even close to the worst I've seen.  (Looking at you two, KirkSkywalker and StarWarsStarTrek.)

(Thrawn was under orders to capture the Rebel leaders alive.)

And Federation ships used to go by themselves.   That was until the Dominion War.  As we saw in "Sacrifice of Angels", during Operation Return, large fleets had become common.  A task force composed of 627 Federation and 300 Klingon ships was sent to retake Deep Space Nine, and went against a fleet of 1254 Dominion and Cardassian ships.  With another 2800 Dominion ships waiting on the other side of the Bajoran wormhole.

By the time the Dominion War was further underway, the Federation-Klingon-Romulan Alliance was launching fleets of that size fairly regularly:

We also know from the Battle of Tyra (which occurred off-screen) that a Federation fleet of 112 ships was all but wiped out in an engagement with a Dominion fleet.

And then, there was the final battle of the Dominion War - the Battle of Cardassia:

Also, Jem'Hadar "fighters" - unlike Starfleet's fighters - aren't what we'd really normally consider starfighters.  They're about the size of Princess Leia's ship or a Klingon Bird-of-Prey, and have a crew of 43.

If we were going with the old SW canon, as well as Pre-STO ST canon I might agree with you.  But alas, some... interesting developments happened in both universes.

The first, was that, as of Star Trek Online, the Federation has developed dedicated carriers.  Or rather, the Caitians (a Federation member species) donated their dedicated carriers to Starfleet.  Behold, the ~1.2 km-long Atrox-class:

And, as we saw in DS9, Starfleet DID make use of fighters (and continues to do so into the Star Trek Online era):

The Peregrine-class Attack Fighter:

And the Stalker-class Stealth Fighter:

And, here we see why fighters don't appear too often in Star Trek, unless there's a fleet engagement, or a recon or escort mission:

As for starship sizes, well, that's no longer too much of a factor, considering that we now have ships like the 1,062 meter-long Odyssey-class (the Enterprise-F being an example of one):

And another being the 1,500 meter-long Jupiter-class:

Your bog-standard Imperial Star Destroyer is 1,600 meters long, while a Rebel Mon Cal Cruiser is 1,200 meters long.  A Romulan Warbird is about 1,300 meters long.

So, technically, size isn't too much of a factor any more.

Another big decider is ship firepower.  Take this scene from the Deep Space Nine episode "The Die Is Cast":

And yes, there is that talk about the "transponder sending back false readings", but remember, the surprise didn't come until AFTER those life-form readings - the devastation of the planet's crust was about what they were expecting.  And it was said earlier in the episode that the fleet was expected to boil that planet (about the size of Earth) down to its core after 6 hours of bombardment.

High-end for their weapons?  Sure.  But not even close to the highest firepower showing/tanking.

Now, compare this orbital bombardment season from the Rebels episode "Zero Hour"

Though, I do agree that the Empire would beat the Federation in ground warfare.  Even though a phaser is a superior weapon to a blaster.

Okay, given that we see that Disney's new canon has significantly nerfed Star Wars firepower (not counting superweapons like the Death Star or Starkiller Base), well, we have to ask ourselves - which sci-fi universes can Star Wars defeat in ship-to-ship firepower?  

Here are my guesses:

Star Wars can defeat:

Firefly

New Battlestar Galactica (at least, until the nukes start flying)

Cowboy Bebop

Star Wars might defeat:

Babylon 5 (at least, the younger races - if only because of shields.  Elder races, like the Vorlons and Shadows should have no problem with SW ships - to say nothing about what the Thirdspace Aliens can do)

Any other universes that SW can actually win against?

Shar chuckled at Sulap's comeback.  He'd found that a sense of humor was often needed at this base, what with everything that they had to face.

"Yeah, we've got replicators." the Andorian replied.  "And a team of cooks for special occasions.  Things like holidays, major victories, funerals, stuff like that."  At last, returning to the dining hall, Shar opened the doors.  "Ladies and gentlemen..." he began.  "Make yourselves at home."  Shar then started walking over to a replicator stationed at a nearby wall.  Maybe now he could finish his breakfast.

"Raktajino." he said to the replicator.  "Hot.  Two servings of vanilla cream."  On cue, a mug of the hot, sweet, Klingon coffee materialized in the replicator's reception pad.  Pausing for a moment, he voiced another order to the machine.  "Orange juice.  Cold.  And a plate of... six icoberry pancakes."  Once more, his requested food and drink materialized.  He carried his meal over to a nearby table, and started to dig in.

Now, Teams 4 - 6:

Team 4:

Lord Shen

Rhinox

John McClane

Sir Lancelot (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

Gorgutz 'Ead'unter

Night Owl

Big Smoke

Commander Shepard

Team 5:

Spider-Man

Heavy Weapons Guy

Harvey the Wonder Hamster

Dolorous Edd

Ellen Ripley

Curly (City Slickers)

Thanquol

Rolf

Team 6:

Jack Bauer

The Kool-Aid Man

Kevin McCallister

B.O.B.

Barney Gumble

Solid Snake

Lucario

Gaston

So, which team claims victory?

Alright, time to kill this sociopathic Marty Stu.  In order to eliminate Eragon, six teams of eight people each have been sent in to try and deal with him.  The team that can kill him first wins.  The setting: the endless farmlands of Nebraska.

Team 1:

Lina Inverse

Perrin Aybara

Jotaro Kujo

Data

Kylo Ren

Tony Montana

Marvin Boggs

Hoss Delgado

Team 2:

Dave Ryder

Zap Rowsdower

Torgo

Zathras

Morn

Al Bundy

Matt Foley (Motivational Speaker)

Louie the Rune Soldier

Team 3:

Agent Washington

Rainbow Dash

Michael McNeil

Carrot Ironfoundersson

Marvin the Paranoid Android

Ibram Gaunt

Burt Gummer

Sylvanas Windrunner

Okay, that's Teams 1 - 3.  Teams 4 - 6 will come later...

Shar lead the recruits back through the gates, passing soldiers of various species along the way, each carrying out various tasks needed for the fortress' maintenance.  To his left, three male humans - two baseline, and one Tiberium mutant - were repairing a damaged tank while arguing over whether or not to give it upgrades, or just get it back to working again.  On one of the towers, a female elf was overseeing the installation of a new phaser turret - a Gatling phaser apparently.  Far in front of him, a male Protoss, female Marlfox, and male Klingon were triple-checking a new set of blast doors, while the partially-melted remains of the old set lay off to the side.  At his right, a male Twi'lek was testing the integrity of the hover bikes, while seven humans - four male, three female - etched some kind of ward into the soil.

"Um, what happened here?" one of the recruits asked.

"Oh, this?  Just a greenskin raid, nothing to really worry about.  You know what orcs and goblins are like, launching their Waaagh!s.  Nothing to get worked up over.  At least, not when compared to some of the other things we've fought."

"Other things?" another recruit asked.  "Do you mean the undead, or those worse things?"

"The latter." Shar replied.  "Believe me, if it were just greenskins and undead in that forest, this fortress wouldn't be needed.  After all, there's a reason that our library is the single largest repository of info on malevolent spirit beings in the world.  But enough about that for now.  Let's get you all something warm to eat before you develop hypothermia.  Besides, you'll need your energy when your training begins tomorrow.  For now, we get something to eat, and you get the grand tour of the Winter Fortress!".

Another reason Flaglerchat's death was/is celebrated is because of the fact that he made multiple people's lives hell, especially with his stalking, harassing, and frivolous lawsuits.

So, all in all, December 31, 2014 marked a day when the human gene pool was improved significantly.

His own personal amusement.

Shar walked out past the fortress' gate to greet the newcomers - probably the usual ragtag bunch of misfits.  As he continued to walk forward, the group of new recruits came into focus.  There were about twenty or so - mostly human, with the occasional Klingon or Wookiee thrown in - for the most part, the usual recruits.  There were two Drow in the group, and a Kroot as well - less typical, but nothing he hadn't seen a few times before.  And... one Ferengi.  Okay.  THIS was odd.  Ferengi for the most part weren't known for their prowess in combat, to say nothing about their general unwillingness to seek it out.  Ultimately, he decided that it was irrelevant, and decided to give his usual introductory speech.

"Good morning!" the Andorian shouted.  "I am Captain Tol'kan Shar, commander of the Winter Fortress 8th Battalion!  And you lot, are now mine to command!"  A bit of a harsh intro, but then, this WAS one of the harshest locations in the world.  "For fifteen years, I've served at this place, so, I can safely say that half of the rumors you've heard about the Fortress are false."  He watched the recruits start to sigh in relief.  "However..." he began, getting their attention.  "All the rumors you've heard about the Tengaren Forest over there?  Well, they're probably true."  Now he watched as the cadets began to blanch in horror.

"You mean...." one of the human recruits began.  "That there are ghosts in the forest?  And zombies?"  Shar laughed humorlessly.  Oh, he might already have to send one of these newbies home.  Terrific.

"Boy, the undead are the LEAST of your worries regarding that forest!  Well, them and the Greenskin tribes that lurk in there.  In that forest, there exists every sort of infernal being you can think of.  Demons.  Daemons.  Pah-Wraiths.  Fek'Ihri.  Mazoku.  Apostles.  White Walkers.  As well as all sorts of horrors that haven't been named yet."  Shar paused, letting the info sink in.  "But, with training, skill, and more than a little luck, you can learn how to not only survive these monsters, but even turn the tide against them."  He took another look at the shivering cadets.

"Now then, let's get to the dining hall, and get you all a nice hot meal.  Can't have the newbies getting hypothermia, can we?"

But it still needs to be posted.

On December 31, 2014, Flaglerchat died of cancer.

We no longer have to worry about him being a threat to this board or its members.

For those who never met him, Flaglerchat (real name: Patrick Mannix, Sr.) was a troll?  Nuisance?  Total cunt?  Who's "schtick" consisted of finding other people's personal info and pictures, and posting them.

More info on Flaglerchat can be found on his Encyclopedia Dramatica page, here: https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Flaglerchat

And so, without further ado, I'd  like to say two words in memory of Flaglerchat.

Good riddance.

This is it.  The final season.

Seems like only yesterday that Rebels first aired.

(OOC: Alright, now that my week full of nonsense is done, we can finally get this RP a rollin')

Shar sipped from his mug of raktajino as he read over the latest report the scouts had sent back.  A few zombies and skeletons were wandering the local forest, but nothing that they couldn't handle.  He placed his mug down on the table, both to grab a bite from his egg-and-sausage sandwich, and to savor the aroma of the raktajino.

Say what you will about the Klingons... he thought.  They may be smelly, bloodthirsty, worm-eating barbarians, but by the gods, do they know how to make a good cup of coffee.  He was just about to take another sip when his communicator went off.

"Captain Shar.  Captain Tol'kan Shar." the voice on the other side of the communicator began.  Shar reached over and pressed a button on his communicator marked "reply".

"Shar here.  Go ahead."

"I've just received news that the latest batch of newbies has arrived.  Lord Commander Ronston requests that you be there to give them their proper welcome."  Shar sighed.  He knew this was going to happen.

"I'll be right there." Shar replied.  "Well, only one thing to do." he said to no one in particular, before rapidly devouring his sandwich and washing it down with raktajino.  Grabbing his power sword and phaser pistol and putting on his cloak, he began to dart from the dining hall towards the front gate.

Please, just this once, let there be no dumbasses among these newbies...

Sing to the tune of Coolio's "Gansgta's Paradise".

As I post in the forum that's the Kingdom of Trolls

I try to boost my rep, 'cause I'm low in the polls

'Cause I've been pimpin' and bustin' for so long

That even my mama thinks that my mind is gone!

But I ain't never spammed a thread that really deserved it

Me treat Jack with respect you know that's unheard of

You better watch how you're talkin' when you come up the bend

Or New Age Posting will annoy you all to no end

I really hate to brag but I gotta fish shop

And I see myself cheering when the Cowboys are on top, fool

Gank's the kinda guy the little dummies wanna be like

Praying in the forums and shouting "Jesus Christ!"

Been spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Been spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Keep spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Keep spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

My situation nearly drove me to despair

I can't live a normal life, they got me stranded in DayCare

So I gotta be down with my socks in N.A.P.

Too much comic book-reading has driven me batshit crazy

I'm a total fool with Conchaga on my mind

Got a comic in my hand and a gleam in my eye

I'm a wannabe gangsta with impotent anger

And my sockpuppets all say that I'm an awesome gang-banger, fool

DayCare ain't nothin' but a click away

I'm spammin' shit, do or die, what can I say

I'm in the clear now, but will that always be so

The way things are going, I don't know

Tell me why I am so blind to see

That the one I pwn, is always me

Been spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Been spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Keep spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Keep spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Fish shop and the comics, comics and the fish shop

Maybe just for once, the Cowboys won't be a flop

Everybody's groaning, but half of them ain't caring

All that they are doing, is laughing at me and staring

The say I gotta wise up, but no one hear will teach me

So I guess I'll just make it so that nobody'll wanna reach me

So now that they can't, I guess they won't

I guess they front, but I still hold to the belief that I'm hot stuff, fool

Been spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Been spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Keep spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Keep spendin' most my life, postin' up in Blackfoot's Paradise

Tell me why I am so blind to see

That the one I pwn, is always me

Tell me why I am so blind to see

That the one I pwn, is always me

Now, to celebrate finally getting a certain smiley to work, here's the updated list!

                                                                                                                                                      :respect:  :hope:  :flower:  :shuriken:  :fish:  :yes  :wallbash:  :alien:  :clover:  :queen:  :wine:  :smiling:  :spam:  :ninja:  :chris:  :down:  :baby:  :thumbup:  :dj:  :beer:  :whip:  :horse:  :turned:  :scooter:  :cat:  :blushing:  :clap:  :sweat:  :thumbsup:  :police:  :secret:  :sorcerer:  :laughing:  :thumbdown:  :guitar:  :fun:  :right:  :construction:  :left:  :up:  :2guns:  :band:  :unworthy:  :mail:  :help:  :harhar:  :cheers:  :smoke:  :gathering:  :rambo:  :censored:  :robo:  :crazy:  :w00t:  :no  :laser:  :realmad:  :offtopic:  :hrhr:  :banned:  :close:  :coffee:  :nuke:  :question:  :geek:  :pc:  :handy:  :ice:  :phone:  :ball:  :spell:  :book:  :vava:  :puke:  :raking:  :mowing:  :bump:  :jason:  :loktar:  :blackfoot:  :seph:  :watermelon:  :enigma:  :chuck:  :fucked:    :mariofacepalm:  ::starwars::  :Romulan:    :esad:  :troll:  :tzeentch:  :pumpkin:  :Akira:  :unit01:  :chrischan:  :johnfreeman:  :krystal:  :bigass:  :dorkpickle:  :meter:  :puppet:  :reimu:  :fredfredburger:  :ermey:  :grimreaper:  :saturn:  :headasplode:  :starguard:  :inquisition:  :heavy:  :donut:  :bullshit:  :littlefoot:  :rickroll:  :hypnotoad:  :roxbury:  :cthulhu:  :batman:  :kenshiro:  :kaboom:  :frank:  :bill:  :jesus:  :pie:  :peep:  :beamcannon:  :mutalisk:  :cardassian:  :vader:  :darwin:  :burger:  :stoner:  :evil:  :butcher:  :blood:  :tardrage:  :wtf:  :scared:  :cookie:  :defiant:  :xwing:  :spock:  :gendo:  :bearpaws:  :soldier:  :raynor:  :illidan:  :tree:  :doctor:  :gir:  :approved:  :popeye:  :locked:  :rimshot: