Leaving orbit in The Motion Picture

[Brian Young 11,994]

In Star Trek: The Motion Picture (which I rather enjoy), when Enterprise exits the drydock, there is a conundrum. Scotty says "Impulse power at your discretion." Kirk says "Impulse power, ahead warp point 5." The ships zooms away from Earth at relativistic velocities.

This is a problem because we've seen several times in the films Enterprise leaving drydock or space dock at 1/4 impulse, or even taking a full minute to fly halfway around space dock at "full impulse power." It is always very low acceleration.

Also, moments later, we observe Enterprise pass Jupiter. Then they say it has been 1.8 hours since launch, and they must risk going to warp while still inside the solar system. Reaching Jupiter in seconds, and 2 hours to clear the other planets, seems inconsistent.

Also the quote is rather ambiguous. We rarely hear "impulse power" and "warp" in the same sentence, and I can't recall another instance when they were referring to the same acceleration event.

Were they using impulse "power" to drive the warp nacelles up to half light speed? Does that explain the time problems via relativity?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20522425/tmp3.mov

[scvn2812 504]

I've been thinking about that whole thing with reducing the mass of the moon via subspace bubble in order to move it. Might this be a sort of hint that warp drive involves mass reduction? We also have the E-D cut across the front of a Borg cube in just a few seconds implying significant acceleration, I believe you clocked it at a hundred gees or so? Impulse by itself may simply be using the thrusters on the back of the ship but I've never heard of any sort of mechanism that would prevent using the warp drive to achieve relativistic speeds. In fact if impulse power alone only is sufficient to propel the ship out of space dock at a few dozen meters per second, hundred or so tops, then sublight warp drive use is practically required if going to warp within a star system is considered a bad idea. We don't generally iirc see ships hop out of warp drive in orbit of planets, we usually cut in as they reach orbit, leaving the precise method of travel unclear.

 

We also have the same issue with photon torpedoes. At visual ranges they move at kilometers a second when they're really in a hurry but the USS Phoenix capped a Cardassian ship at around a light second. Same with phasers, you can watch the phaser beam move at slower than light speeds in frame by frame but either by torpedoes or phasers, the Phoenix destroyed a Cardassian ship in real time at around 300k kilometers. I don't think this is the only example of beyond visual range combat either. Depending on your interpretation of the events of Generations, that might be one as well (or Worf was just telling us the amount of time the missile would be within range of ship's weapons.)

[scvn2812 504]

I've been thinking about that whole thing with reducing the mass of the moon via subspace bubble in order to move it. Might this be a sort of hint that warp drive involves mass reduction? We also have the E-D cut across the front of a Borg cube in just a few seconds implying significant acceleration, I believe you clocked it at a hundred gees or so? Impulse by itself may simply be using the thrusters on the back of the ship but I've never heard of any sort of mechanism that would prevent using the warp drive to achieve relativistic speeds. In fact if impulse power alone only is sufficient to propel the ship out of space dock at a few dozen meters per second, hundred or so tops, then sublight warp drive use is practically required if going to warp within a star system is considered a bad idea. We don't generally iirc see ships hop out of warp drive in orbit of planets, we usually cut in as they reach orbit, leaving the precise method of travel unclear.

 

We also have the same issue with photon torpedoes. At visual ranges they move at kilometers a second when they're really in a hurry but the USS Phoenix capped a Cardassian ship at around a light second. Same with phasers, you can watch the phaser beam move at slower than light speeds in frame by frame but either by torpedoes or phasers, the Phoenix destroyed a Cardassian ship in real time at around 300k kilometers. I don't think this is the only example of beyond visual range combat either. Depending on your interpretation of the events of Generations, that might be one as well (or Worf was just telling us the amount of time the missile would be within range of ship's weapons.)

[Tyralak 12,068]

I have to admit, that one is an odd duck. It was never dangerous to use Warp in a solar system or next to a planet. Zefram Cochrane's first warp ship used it's warp drive in low Earth orbit, for Pete's sake.

[scvn2812 504]

It might be because of traffic, Sol is the capital of the Federation and while we've never seen a great volume of ships in and outbound on screen, one must assume that there is a degree of civilian traffic. Freighters bringing in manufactured goods from other systems, raw materials being dug out of the moons and asteroids and hauled to Utopia Planitia and Earth orbit. The other explanation is that the greater density of random debris in a star system is considered a navigational hazard. It may be harder (not impossible, just harder) to plot a course around debris significant enough to be a threat to the Enterprise while going C or higher. Near Earth orbit is probably fairly clean thanks to the gravitational pull of Earth and the Moon sucking in anything that doesn't have enough momentum to maintain its orbit, so Cochrane wasn't in any more risk than the Apollo astronauts.

[Brian Young 11,994]

The traffic idea is a good thought, but there wasn't a lot of space traffic in Kirks's era. In that very movie, they had to use the unfinished Enterprise because "the only ship in interception range is the Enterprise."

There was also a clip in TNG where getting somewhere on time was a big deal, so they dropped out of warp, transported people to a planet, and jumped back to warp. Deanna (my daughter's namesake said she thought she materialized inside a wall, and Data said for a moment she did. I have the clip. Anyway, that was close to a planet.

The BoP used warp speed to slingshot back in time and forward in time in ST4.

So it is an unusual example. Maybe it had to do with Enterprise's untested new engines? But the point being Kirk ordered not "full impulse" but "impulse power, warp point five."

[scvn2812 504]

There are thousands of tankers and cargo ships at sea to the three hundred or so warships of the USN. The total number of coastal yachts, cruise ships, fishing boats, ice breakers etc would almost certainly dwarf the USN many times over.

 

The Enterprise may be the only ship capable of intercepting V'ger but that doesn't make her the only ship in the system.

[Tyralak 12,068]

Well, I think this will be an excellent opportunity for a test run of the video capture device that Brian so generously sent to me. I'll capture the scene so we can review it.