Ado Mortumee

Why are you looking up pictures of Kim Jong Il?

I'm not. Go over to the NSFW forum on SB and you'll find the thread where I got the pictures. Its funny.

"On my mark, strip!"

"WHERE'S MY MORNING SNACK!"

“I HAVE EWOKS

YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID.â€

A Constitution class starship's shields were said to be able to withstand a direct hit from 90 photon torpedoes simultaneously. In TNG, a photorp explosion was equivalent to around 64 megatons. Probably more powerful than TOS torps, but so would their shields be. So let's just say that TNG-era shielding and torps are relative to TOS-era...5.76 gigatons is what the shields can manage. Voyager-era torps are much more powerful.

*Gives Consul Sacrifyx a giant cookie* Good, you ar learning. You have to remember to back up claims with evidence when ever possible. At the very least a reference to the episode in question is needed otherwise you might get torn apart and devoured by others.

Good thing I know about that TOS epsiode you are talking about otherwise I would have to lock you in a room with Jason.

Star Destroyer? Are you serious? The things that keep their shield generators flying high above the rest of the ship like a couple of fucking goose eggs? Really now, for laughs indeed. One photorp to the gennies and you can kiss your Star Destroyer's shields goodbye.

The event in case also had the entire rebel fleet concentrating all firepower on the Executor. If the generators on any old Star Destroyer are that vulnerable when shields are still up why don’t we see this advantages exploited else where?

Fly through? There's nothing to fly 'through'. From the hull to the outer edge, it's solid shields, not just a crunchy candy shell protecting the soft gooey caramel inside. Go too fast you'll got splat, like you said - go too slow, and maybe you'll just bounce off.

The ANH novel states that they flew through the Death Star’s shields. How else do you explain them getting through them when we know the DS has them? Besides we've seen that shields can be pasted through by slow moving objects but not fast moving in TPM - Tanks fire their main guns but don't go through the shields, Droids are able to go through them.

Take Mass Effect as an example: Shields only react to an object moving at X speed, this can be adjusted by the user to the point where if they attempt to sit down the chair is sent flying away.

Light Amplified by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. They either are or they are not, and if they are NOT, then they are not lasers. Unfortunately, they make it clear that they are using lasers, ergo, they are the same as real world lasers. I suppose we should also keep in mind that we're discussing fiction here.

And how exactly have they made it clear they are lasers? They act nothing like lasers - is a Photon torpedo a weapon used in water becuase it is called a torpedo? Is the barrel of a phaser rifle or blaster rifle rifled like a modern day weapons? Just because they call it a Laser means nothing, all that matters is how it acts - and what Star Wars calls a laser is nothing like a real life laser.

Maybe not, but they do tend to move fast all the same. Much faster than ST phasers and disruptors, but those aren't light-based weapons.

Phasers can hit a target at around 300,000 kilometers in a single second or thereabouts. SW laser bolts can be seen moving along at several dozen kilometers per second on screen at the highest IIRC.

Bullshit. You have the internet at your disposal, read up.

You cannot see a beam of light from the side unless it is sufficiently scattered by dust. Say I take a laser and shoot it across the room, it is invisible to you unless I give it some dust so that the light scatters into different directions (some of which becomes oriented to your eye), or that I shoot the laser directly into your eye. That is why when people use a laser pointer, you don't see a beam of light like a Lightsaber, but you see the dot when it hits the wall.

Well...I would think if the beams were fired simultaneously to meet at a point in the middle it MIGHT be possible...but how to direct the beam so it shot at the planet instead of right back at the Death Star...seems a bit risky.

Nope, if the Death Star's tributary lasers were real lasers they would just shoot right through each other. On the other hand a plasma based weapon can do what we see with magnetic fields. Strangely enough the displayed properties of Star Wars lasers all point to them being sub-light speed plasma/particle weapons

The only thing they have in common with a real world laser is the name. Nothing else. Everything we see about them on screen when their fired proves their not lasers.

"Pulse lasers were used as weapons by the Lysian Central Command. Like other laser devices, pulse lasers were not considered very powerful by 24th century Federation standards. (TNG: "Conundrum")"

 

I think it makes sense that if lasers were considered to be worth a shit, more people would be using them, eh? Romulan Warbird, twice the size of a Galaxy class starship, just THINK of the size of laser you could strap on to that shit...why do you suppose they didn't?

Don’t dodge the point. You said:

3. Weapons: Star Trek has phasers. Lasers used to be the weapon of choice, but fell out of favor in the mid 23rd century due to the much higher power of PHASed Energy Rectification weapons. By the 24th, lasers, according to Picard "wouldn't even penetrate our navigation shield." Star Wars uses lasers. Lasers seem to pass right through whatever shielding they use in that universe and blow the shit out of anything underneath it, which leads one to believe that:

 

A) Star Wars weaponry would never be able to get past Star Trek shielding

 

Star Wars shielding (and the vehicles beneath it) would be obliterated quickly by Star Trek weaponry. A Star Trek starship wouldn't need to find the Death Star's exhaust port.

You claimed that their weapons would not be able to get through because their lasers, which means nothing. What matters is how powerful the weapon is on impact, so say we use ICS numbers that give a single Mk. II Imperial Star Destroyer an output of 2.2 Petatons per second that can all be put through its weapons and assume they use real lasers; do you still claim they can withstand that level of firepower? Just because Phasers are superior to lasers in Star Trek means nothing, and SW weapons are clearly not lasers unless we completely ignore all onscreen evidence and go strictly by the name.

The Death Star is also the size of a small moon, is it not? And honestly, shooting at planets is one thing - the laser only points in one direction, and I guarantee the DS isn't going to spin fast enough to catch a ship coming up on its backside, so powerful or not, that particular weapon is useless when the DS is under attack, as the movies clearly illustrated.

Dodging the point again. Do you believe that Federation Navshields can withstand the level of firepower from either the Ringworld meteor or the Death Star superlaser simpley because Picard claimed the lasers being used on a more primitive ship can not get through the Navshields? And last I checked it was only useless against ships less than 20 meters long given we know from the novel Death Star the first one blew a rebel carrier up with its superlaser and we see the second Death Star picking off rebel ships with its superlaser.

The drawback of the first Death Star was it needed 24 hours to recharge before it could fire at full power again.

Some things to consider:

 

1. The Death Star, while mobile, would not be able to maneuver quickly enough to outpace an attacking starship, let alone an armada.

 

2. Assuming the exhaust port is the ONLY weak spot...Star Trek VI made it clear that a photorp only needs a minor adjustment to be able to home in on such a thing. Photorps also have their own shields, so the turrets guarding the trench leading to the port would be ineffective at stopping it.

1. Good, plenty of target practice for the thousands of surface size Turbolasers, though it well take sometime to take out the Fed ships' shields.

2. And is there a reason to assume that there are other weak points? And how exactly do they know of the exhaust port to target it - assuming they survive long enough that they can get a lock through the massive amount of ECM (ANH novel and IIRC the movie too) and that the Photorps are small enough to fit through the 2 meter wide port.

Oh and did you get your neural chip implanted in your skull on the way in to ASVS Inc.? Ah, good.

Remember Sacrifyx, the moment you try to secede I’m going to grab some soda and popcorn, turn on my n00bvison monitor, and flick the switch that makes your head explode a la Running Man.

Debating about SW vs ST speeds in the vs thread, I wanted to know what you guys thought was a good size estimate for the SW Galaxy.

 

We've had this discussion at SFJ, and while the Essential guide to the galaxy (I believe it is this book) states it is 120 000 LY across, three higher G-Canon sources and all the maps in the EU point to a much smaller Galaxy...

 

 

 

-The ANH novel specifically states that the SW galaxy is a modest-sized one.

 

Our very own Milky Way, at around 100 000 LY across, contains from 100 to 400 Billion stars, is not a modest-sized galaxy.

 

It is in fact a large galaxy.

 

Average-sized galaxies are around 15 to 30 thousands LY across, not 100.

 

 

 

Modest meaning “not greatâ€, or “not bigâ€, should even be smaller than the average galaxy size.

And what was a modest size galaxy back when A New Hope was written? Without knowing that its far to vague to use without knowing what a "modst size galaxy" is in the 70s.

And there is one other source I know of that states the SW galaxy is 120,000 LY across, Shield of Lies. Lando mentions the size of the galaxy at some point and it was 120,000 LY.

(see here):

 

The link isn't working for me.

-The TESB novel states that Endor and Sullust were "hundreds of LY apart".

 

As per the Maps in every source I found, Endor and Sullust are 1/10th of the galaxy diameter away from one another, and since they are “Hundreds†of LY apart, then they cannot be more than 1000LY apart, perhaps even 2000 LY if we want to be very generous.

 

In a Galaxy 120 000LY in size, they would have been 10 000 to 12 000 LY apart, which no one would use "hundreds" to describe…

 

 

 

-In AotC, from Tatooine to Geonosis is "less than a parsec" (3.26 LY or 30.97E+12 km), according to dialogue between Padme and Anakin. Most maps put them close to one another (the one in the "Star Wars Insider" magazine, ), and they are perhaps no more than 1/200th of the Galaxy in size, which would make it 6 520 LY across...

 

 

 

Having a Galaxy 10 000 LY across would take the Hyperdrive speeds down a lot, although still above Warp speeds...

Personally I ignore the maps in favor of hard numbers given by the characters in-universe or in other sources because simply because maps can easily be inaccurate - Hm... planets shown on the maps are easily light years across... not contradicted by the movies… means that ICS is right and that SW starships have Teraton-Petaton level firepower because they are hundreds of thousands to millions of kilometers long! Ok, ya get your small galaxy!

Also its Rerturn of the Jedi that states the distance between the two, not TESB.

P.S., Anyone who thinks that Leelamd Chee's statement about that being the actual SW galaxy makes sense needs his head examined.

Completely agreed. Its silly, but he is the guy put in charge of canon.

Google Earth reveals Star of David on roof of Iran Air HQ.

Welcome to ASVS Inc. where total dominion is our number one goal!

1. Engines: Star Trek uses warp drive, Star Wars uses a hyperdrive, I believe? Both deliver FTL transportation. Star Wars has never gone into specifics as to exactly what speed their drives travel at, in Star Trek, starships can travel at over 1,000 times the speed of light at top speed. Because SW has, to the best of my knowledge, no canon source for obtaining such numbers, we'll call this one a draw.

1.A: 1000C is their standard cruising speed. Pre Star Trek: Voyager () max. Warp speed is 21,000 C and can IIRC be maintained for 12 hours.

1.B: SW FTL low end: A couple hundred or so light years pre hour at cruising speed pre the C-canon Thrawn Trilogy books. Higher end: Tens of millions to hundreds of millions C from G canon such as the rebel fleet outside the SW galaxy during the end of TESB (object has been confirmed by Leland Chee as the SW galaxy), and then from the other movies when using stated distances between planets and size the of Star Wars galaxy (120,000LY) from C canon sources.

2. Shields: Star Trek has them. They seem to be quite effective. Star Wars also has shields, but fuck if I can tell what they're used for because they don't seem to block shit.

A.2: Ok, your clearly new at this. I need more than your opinion of “The seem to be quite effectiveâ€, what do you base this on? Can they withstand Kilotons of TNT before failing? Megatons? Gigatons? Teratons? Numbers man numbers! Your opinion on the matter means absolutely nothing to me in a Vs. debate without cold hard facts taken from the shows and movies to prove your point.

B. Right. So I guess C3PO and Han were worried over the shields for nothing in TESB when they said another hit would finish them off? And the captain of the Star Destroyer the Falcon hid on ordered shields raise for laughs since it wouldn't have stopped the Falcon.

If your talking about them getting through like in Episode I with the droids that has to do with how fast the object is moving. Go to fast they go splat like a fly on a windshield. Of course we know this doesn’t hold true for all shields since we know they had to open the docking bay ones when the Millennium Falcon was captured by the Death Star.

3. Weapons: Star Trek has phasers. Lasers used to be the weapon of choice, but fell out of favor in the mid 23rd century due to the much higher power of PHASed Energy Rectification weapons. By the 24th, lasers, according to Picard "wouldn't even penetrate our navigation shield." Star Wars uses lasers. Lasers seem to pass right through whatever shielding they use in that universe and blow the shit out of anything underneath it, which leads one to believe that:

 

A) Star Wars weaponry would never be able to get past Star Trek shielding

 

Star Wars shielding (and the vehicles beneath it) would be obliterated quickly by Star Trek weaponry. A Star Trek starship wouldn't need to find the Death Star's exhaust port.

Star Wars lasers are not he same as real world lasers. They can be seen moving at far slower speeds than the 186,000 MPS of the speed of light on screen. They can be seen in the vacuum of space from side which is impossible without dust to scatter the beam (a real laser would be invisible from the side in vacuum without a lot of dust to scatter the light from the beam). And finally there is the superlaser of the Death Star when fired: REAL LASERS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! They do not just shoot out to stop in the middle of space to combine into one superduper planet-blasting ray gun.

And now we get to a No Limits Fallacy: “Lasers wouldn’t even penetrate our navigation shield.†Context man context! I mean this is like taking that line from Episode I about nothing being able to get through the shields of the Trade Federation control ship at face value when we know they can be penetrated like all other shields. I mean if no weapon can get through the shields of a mere converted cargo ship then shouldn’t the Trade Feds have won the Clone Wars without losing a single starship? The fact is the ship in question if I recall the episode correctly was far smaller and more primitive than the Ent-D so its lasers would have a vastly smaller output compared to the larger more advance Ent-D which could easily tank whatever was thrown at it.

So you are you telling me that we should take this offhand comment from Picard to mean that a laser of any magnitude will be deflected by the Navshields? Such as the one from Larvy Niven’s Ringworld books, specifically the second book Ringworld Engineers when the Ring’s meteor defense is shown to be able to completely obliterate sections of the ring’s surface the size of the Earth? Or how about the super laser of the Death Star? The one that has been calc at the higher end to be 10^38J - or only a million times less powerful than the 10^44J of a bloody Super Nova! Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, noob! So show us where Fed shields are shown as being able to tank a laser anywhere near the firepower of the Ringworld or the Death Star!

And are you also seriously suggesting that any normal Trek ship can defeat the Death Star? Its a 160 fricking kilometers in diameter! The best the Ent-D could do to an asteroid moon (whichever episode it was Q lost his powers in) was to shatter it - Data said the mass would remain the same and the damage would be spread out. The largest size I recall being given for the asteroid moon in question placed it at 30 odd kilometers max.

Contradicted by the movie when the captain of the ISD the MF hid on ordered shields raised - after all, if particle shields are on all the time why order shields raised when the Falcon comes about? - and ANH novel:

Page 102 A New Hope

 

 

 

“What the--?†a thoroughly startled Solo muttered. Next to

 

him, Chewbacca offered no comment of his own as he flipped

 

off several controls and activated others. Only the fact that the

 

cautious Solo always emerged from the supralight travel with his

 

deflectors up--just in case any of many unfriendly folks might

 

be waiting for him--had saved the freighter from instant destruc-

 

tion.

And finally having found my copy of the New essential Guide: “Particle shields are usually kept powered at all times to protect against micrometers and other small particles. Combat-grade radiant shielding consumes a great deal of energy and is only activated when combat is imminent.â€

So from this we know that they are usually kept powered at all times and that they only use combat grade shields when battle is imminent (or are getting hit with enough asteroids unless Vader gets pissed at them about wasting fuel).

It doesn't say anything about the shields being down. ISDs have deflector shields for dealing with asteroids and micrometeorites.

If shields were up the book would have said the asteroids impacted the shields instead of referring directly to the hull of the Star Destroyer which makes no sense if shields are up during the impacts.

Point is, Prophet, Ty was asking why we should believe the nukes could even "damage" an ISD's armor.

 

The asteroid ripped it a new hole, literally, and it was no more than 60-80 KT from my own calcs (don't have them ATM, will get them Monday).

 

So a nuclear weapon in the double-digit KT should damage an ISD quite well, thank you very much...

Depends on where it hits. If it hits the bridge it will do heavy damage if not outright destroying it, and now upon checking TESB novel I found the quote I was looking for:

The Star Wars Trilogy The Empire Strikes Back section page 268

 

 

 

THE Avenger had spotted the Millennium Falcon the moment

 

the freighter shot out of the enormous asteroid.

 

 

 

From that moment, the Imperial ship renewed its pursuit of

 

the freighter with a blinding barrage of fire. Undaunted by the

 

steady rain of asteroids against its massive hull, the Star Destroyer

 

relentlessly follwed the smaller ship.

 

 

 

The Milllennium Falcon, far more maneuverable than the other

 

ship, darted around the larger asteroids as they came rocketing

 

toward it. The Falcon was succeeding in holding its lead in front

 

of the Avenger, but it was clear that the steadily pursuing ship

 

was not about to abandon the chase.

 

 

 

Suddenly a gigantic asteroid appeared in the Millennium Fal-

 

con's path, rushing towards the freighter at incredible speed. The

 

ship quickly banked out of the way, and the asteroid hurtled past

 

it, only to explode harmlessly against the Avenger's hull.

So if they catch the ISD with shields down the only place we know they can do any real damage with KT range nukes is the bridge tower. And even then their going to need to get the nuke within IIRC a hundred meters or so of the ship for it to do any real damage in space and the yield would have to be triple digit KT range since its Omnidirectional.

Because a non-nuclear low KT asteroid destroyed the bridge of an ISD in TESB?

Asteroid=/=nuke. An asteroid impacting in space is far more damaging than an equal yield nuke (and IIRC in TESB novel there are asteroids hitting other parts of the hull and not doing any damage at all). Also as I recall the asteroid was in the low triple digit KT range.

Well, given that it was stated to be in the gigajoules range, that would make it sub-KT.

What? The pure evil emited from the second picture too much?

Vs

Fight takes place in St Peter’s Basilica. No outside interference.

Who wins?

Agreed, but they are not in the OP.

No outside interference. This is strictly a one on one fight between Popatine and Darth Cheney.

Vs

It is December 21st 2012 and the apprentice has chosen to take on his master. Single combat in St Peter’s Basilica.

Who wins?

This new Jason is SO much better than the old one.

You are again delusional. Perhaps you need some time in the mines?

*Looks up from game* You again? *Blasts Jason 2 with Force Lighting until he's a pile of ash* Meh.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-segal/stop-the-internet-blackli_b_739836.html

When it really matters to them, Congressmembers can come together -- with a panache and wry wit you didn't know they had. As banned books week gets underway, and President Obama admonishes oppressive regimes for their censorship of the Internet, a group of powerful Senators -- Republicans and Democrats alike -- have signed onto a bill that would vastly expand the government's power to censor the Internet.

 

 

 

The Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA) was introduced just one week ago, but it's greased and ready to move, with a hearing in front of the Judiciary Committee this Thursday. If people don't speak out, US citizens could soon find themselves joining Iranians and Chinese in being blocked from accessing broad chunks of the public Internet.

 

 

 

Help us stop this bill in its tracks! Click here to sign our petition.

 

 

 

COICA creates two blacklists of Internet domain names. Courts could add sites to the first list; the Attorney General would have control over the second. Internet service providers and others (everyone from Comcast to PayPal to Google AdSense) would be required to block any domains on the first list. They would also receive immunity (and presumably the good favor of the government) if they block domains on the second list.

 

 

 

The lists are for sites "dedicated to infringing activity," but that's defined very broadly -- any domain name where counterfeit goods or copyrighted material are "central to the activity of the Internet site" could be blocked.

 

 

 

One example of what this means in practice: sites like YouTube could be censored in the US. Copyright holders like Viacom often argue copyrighted material is central to the activity of YouTube, but under current US law, YouTube is perfectly legal as long as they take down copyrighted material when they're informed about it -- which is why Viacom lost to YouTube in court.

 

 

 

But if COICA passes, Viacom wouldn't even need to prove YouTube is doing anything illegal to get it shut down -- as long as they can persuade the courts that enough other people are using it for copyright infringement, the whole site could be censored.

 

 

 

Perhaps even more disturbing: Even if Viacom couldn't get a court to compel censorship of a YouTube or a similar site, the DOJ could put it on the second blacklist and encourage ISPs to block it even without a court order. (ISPs have ample reason to abide the will of the powerful DOJ, even if the law doesn't formally require them to do so.)

 

COICA's passage would be a tremendous blow to free speech on the Internet -- and likely a first step towards much broader online censorship. Please help us fight back: The first step is signing our petition. We'll give you the tools to share it with your friends and call your Senator.

More links: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/11/bill-would-nuke-visa-cards-adwords-dns-records-for-pirates.ars

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/09/open-letter

This is horrible! Absolutely horrible! Read the wording of the bill! The government can force ICCAN to physically remove websites from the internet! Spread the word and contact your senators! NOW!

You may be the evil overlord, but I am the Board Dictator. At least you outrank the puny God Emporer of Hyrule. He was sent to the mines for reeducation, torture, defenestration, and then beheading.

*Looks up from playing C&C 3. Snaps fingers releasing the God Emperor and returning him to his home.* "You clearly have not read the Evil Overlord List. As you can see here on page 8067, sub-section C, paragraph 7 clearly states that Supreme Evil Overlords outrank all forms of Dictators; I am sad to say that Board Dictator falls under this rule. Now off to the mines with you!"

I am not this Jason creatue. My court pervert has played a truly terrible prank, and he is being punished.

 

 

 

Aren't you?

"Oh, the poor wretched soul. I think all the pain and suffering he has gone through in the dungeon has broken his little mind. Oh well, I'm still Supreme Evil Overlord.†*Goes back to playing Command and Conquer 3*

“My Tallest, we have intercepted transmission from a creature called “Jason 2: Electric Boogalooâ€.â€

“Let me see - what the fuck is this shit!!?? A pathetic…Human… dares to challenge me as Supreme Evil Overlord!!! Bring me my FTL laser pen pointer! I shall fire the first shot of the Galactic Organic Sweep myself!â€

*Takes FTL laser pen pointer and fires the first shot of the Galactic Organic Sweep at Jason 2*

“Now fire Jason into the super massive black hole in the galactic center! The waves of deadly stupidity shall rush through the stars sweeping along all those who dare oppose me to damnation!â€

*All life in the targeted galaxy with Jason 2 in it is wiped out in the waves of the original Jason’s deadly stupidity*

The fuck is this shit!? I am the Supreme Evil Overlord around here! Now if I can just find my FTL laser pen pointer I’ll show you what true power is...