Ado Mortumee

Well, no.

 

 

 

Taking the Federation is going to require a large, massive fleet that the Empire simply can't take away from their fight against the Rebels. We can see this from their inability to take out Mon Calamari because the Rebels had stretched the already thin Imperial fleet thin, like Frodo over the one Ring.

*Face to plam* Mith, the quote in that debate shot you in the foot because it pretty mush just said the Imperials did not want to take Mon Cal at that time, not that they couldn't. Also *Points at Endor* Yep, I can see all those planets that went over to the rebels tipping them off to the trap because a fraction of the Imperial Starfleet had to be elsewhere.

To say the least, an invasion with even weapon odds would require tens of thousands of ships, not to mention thousands of credits being poured into searching and establishing new lanes in Federation space. Unfortunately, Imperial ships are not even close to being on par with their Federation counterparts. As we know, their highest yield capabilities, range up to 5-15 megatons if we assume a literal translation from Revenge of the Sith. More reasonable interpretations suggest kilotons to low megatons.

I'm going to quote a person from SciForums (also from FactPile and appears to also be a former SBer).

Originally Posted by L-W at SciForums.

 

 

 

The small town bit isn’t particularly useful unless you can define the are of a small town. Although given your track record, your affinity for vague and unquantified statements should really come as to no surprise.

 

 

 

At its maximum size, the surface temp of the fireball is 7000 degrees Celsius (although this also assumes that a turbolaser behaves like a nuclear blast. Hint: It doesn’t), sufficient temperature for vaporization. For a nuclear detonation at peak scaling, the fireball radius in feet is equal to 145 times the yield in kt to 0.35. In other words, the formula is r=145*y^0.35 , where Y is KT and R is in feet.

 

 

 

Now here is how it gets tricky, how big is a small town? My hometown in Israel is classified as a village by local standards, but has a population of 20,000 and a surface area of 6.8 square miles. Thus the yield required to vaporize (not just blast) the area would be 151 MT (consistent with the lighter guns). But Exeter, Rhode Island, with its population of 6,000 (United States law states that anything smaller than 10,000 is classified as a “small†town – whereas large town have populations of 100,000’s) has a surface area of 57.71 square miles, requiring a yield of 3,735 MT (nearly 4 gigatons to vaporize). So depending on how big the town gives you different yields. And that’s taking a simplistic look at it by comparing temperatures. Specific heats enter into it so really you should figure out the energy applied over and area and scale it (which would actually make the blast larger than the 200 gigaton figure written in the ICS) according to the composition of the judicial area, which could raise the energy necessary for total vaporization of the surface area by over an order of magnitude.

 

 

 

Of course you could just simply be a borderline Creationist moron that assumes that each every turbolaser is built the same for the exact same purpose, whereas we know of dozens of variants designed for specific tasks (artillery, point-defence, heavy, anti-armour, bombardment etc.).

We know that a stolen Klingon Bird of Prey was capable of using a full spread to destroy a 'few hundred' kilometers of the planet's surface, suggesting 1,025 megatons. If we extrapolate that and use it as a basis for what ships can take, we know then that ST ships have low range gigaton weapons. Even 15 megatons vs. 1,025 megatons isn't even a contest. It would require hundreds of thousands of ships to invade the Federation--and then if we have the Klingons (who are allies) join in, the game goes even further to hell. More so if the Federation decides to deploy superweapons.

Yep, and that's why those 4. something kilojoule shields on that station were seen as being worth wasting a torp on. Oh, and don't forget on ship numbers that just Kuat along could put out 1,000 ISD size ships a year...and that is just ONE MAJOR SHIPYARD IN JUST ONE SYSTEM ALONE. And even so they can still just Hyperspace in after probes have the lanes set up in a few months, bomb the cities on planets and flee. You can win every battle but still lose the war.

The only way the Empire might be able to afford such an action is if they manage to keep the Death Star from going bottle up, as the station is capable of taking out any planet that rebels against the Empire. But if that goes--or if Palpy decides to use it against the Federation (and chances are, he will after the first three months prove entire armadas can be taken down by one ship), then chances are he's also going to lose that when Starfleet notices the ventelation shaft or just notice that parts of the shield will drop up to 20% and fire a concentrated volley on those portions of the shield to allow them to get at the armor beneath it.

Second DS would not have the ventelation shaft problem. Also, prove that the shields would drop 20%. I'm going have to check my copy of The Death Star later, but I believe after that first planet is destroyed by it in the book mountain size rocks moving at fractions of C nit the shields and just bounce off.

Highly unlikely. You'd note that in the Clone Wars movie that the Republic was desperate to get the Hutt lanes when the CIS mined all the current ones. The reason for that, to which if you look in the EU, is that the SW ships cannot make blind hyperspace jumps safely (at least not capital ships, fighters seem to be able to). So much so that without the Hutt lanes, the Republic war effort was basically brought to a grinding halt.

*Face to plam* Mith, that was because they could get the already charted out routes in only a couple days vs weeks to map out new ones. So, if your forces are cut off from theur supplies and you have the following choices, which one do you go with:

1. Look for new routes to reach forces. This could take weeks or even months depending on terrain will your forces are destroyed and overran due to lack of supplies.

2. There are others farther away, but will allow you to get supplies to your forces in time and it takes less then say 4 days.

So no, that's not possible. Second, it's highly unlikely that three Imperials are capable of taking out the Empire. I suppose you're probably trying to go for the Saxton claims, but as we've seen in multiple EU sources, their GT firepower is as often seen as Spock is.

Why is the Empire attacking itself?

Looking again, to Apocalypse Rising, A Klingon BoP is stated to be able to take care of anyone within a 'few hundred kms or Gorwon's base camp. This suggests at least a yield of 1,025 megatons. It is possible of course, that it could be a Class X torpedo, which has shown to have a higher yield, but even then it's not likely to be all that much higher than all their other torpedoes, given that it could also be deployed against starships.

Yep, that is why the Ent couldn't blow that 10 kilometer partly hollow rock up with anything less then most of its 250-300 Photon Torps, right?

And before you ask, yes, you do know me. Just change one word in my name.

Bah, the old Roman Empire would have easily wiped the floor with the Covenant because they had swords that could shoot 20 Gigatons beams every second and armor that could withstand that for hours. Besides, I love my history, and rebuilding the Roman Empire will be far more fun then blowing stuff up as the Covenant.

The Empire of The Nova Byzantines

“Rebirth of the old Roman Empireâ€

Category: Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Civil Rights: Below Average

Economy: Thriving

Political Freedoms: Excellent

Location: The Imperium

Regional Influence: Minnow

The Empire of The Nova Byzantines is a tiny, economically powerful nation, renowned for its compulsory military service. Its hard-working, intelligent population of 8 million have some civil rights, but not too many, enjoy the freedom to spend their money however they like, to a point, and take part in free and open elections, although not too often.

The enormous government is mainly concerned with Social Welfare, although Commerce and Healthcare are secondary priorities. The average income tax rate is 27%. A robust private sector is led by the Cheese Exports, Retail, and Automobile Manufacturing industries.

The automotive industry soaks up huge government handouts, meat-eating is frowned upon, the government is seen to favor Catholics, and scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is relatively low. The Nova Byzantines's national animal is the great south bear, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the deari.

May I suggest we burn the stupid emitting from Jason from orbit with lots and lots of fire?

It is January 1st, 2550 in Halo. It is post-Nemesis in Star Trek.

A small Covenant fleet - one CCS-class Battlecruiser and three Destroyers - have located a Forerunner Relic in deep space, a vast, pyramid shaped device the size of High Charity. As the Covenant fleet approaches the device activates the sides slowly open up, the center glowed a brilliant white, when the sides had reach a 90 degree angle the tips of the sides began to glow, and then five beams of light converged on a single point in a blinding flash. A vast dark-blue sphere floated over the ancient device.

The Fleet Master ordered one of the Destroyers to return to High Charity and inform the Hierarchs will he investigated the portal.

The Enterprise is sent from Earth to a star system several dozen light years away to investigate a report about a new, stable wormhole formed by some strange device.

The Enterprise arrived within twelve hours. As it entered the system, sensors showed alien ships of unknown design surrounding the device.

“Hail them,†Picard ordered.

“Fleet Master,†a minor Elite said,†an alien ship has entered the system and is hailing us.â€

“Very well, main screen,†the Fleet Master ordered.

A large holo screen appeared before the Elite…

Enterprise: On the screen appeared a large alien.†I am Captain -†Picard was cut off as the alien roared and cut the transmission.†Captain! They are charging weapons! Reading show that they are plasma weapons of great strength, enough to easily overwhelm shields in several hi - â€Pulse Lasers impacted the Enterprises shields as the alien ships turned to present their port sides.†Take us to warp!†Picard ordered. After they had escaped the Enterprise returned to Earth to report what they had found.

So, who wins?

I think you did the math wrong. 12.75 gigawatts per second equates to 12.75 gigajoules, which is FAR lower than 3 GT/s. 12.75 Gigajoules is 3.04 tons/sec.

 

 

 

How did you get Gigatons?

Sorry there, I meant 12.75 billion Gigawatts. Yet another reason for me to remember not to post late at night.

Does the site have a translator or something? Because this Jason makes very little sense.

Since I don't really now what he is even saying I'll just comment on the high-end firepower for this event:

If we go with Date's clear incorrect 12.75 Gigawatts per second, that would be 3GT/s, so for 33 seconds the power of the beam at high end would be 99 GT.

So as a high end (unless I messed up here) we know a Borg Cube can take at least 99 GT to the shields. Of course given what we know of ST AM 3GT/s is silly and would use up all the fuel on the ship in less then two months.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to defer to you on this matter. Other than the first 3 games, I don't know much about the Halo universe. I probably should read some of the books though. Are they all in one series or are they written by a number of authors?

Their written by a number of authors. The best author is Eric Nylund and he wrote: The Fall of Reach. Good book, but inconsistent on a number of things because it had to be rushed. First Strike, which tells the story of how the Master Chief, Cortana, and Johnson returned to Earth. Ghost of Onyx is really good, tells of the Spartan IIIs, what happen to two of the characters from FS.

The Flood was wrote by William C. Dietz - though someone should have told him when you shoot people with super heated plasma there is not gong it be a lot of blood - more of a rehash of Halo: CE but tells about what the rest of the PoAs crew was up too and an Elite with a grudge with the Master Chief.

Contact Harvest was good, I’ll have to dig out my copy later though for the author.

Then there is The Cole Protocol by Tobias S. Buckell. I enjoyed it, but other Haloites didn’t seem too.

For the number of major fleets the Covenant have been able to deploy over the war and the date off the top of my head:

2535: 36 Covenant ships deployed to glass world as UNSC fleet fled.

2543: 300 Covenant ships destroyed.

2552: 24 ships destroyed.

2552: 750 ships deployed at Reach. Several hundred destroyed.

2552, two weeks after The Fall of Reach: 500+ ships and 30 kilometer mobile station destroyed.

2552, H2: High Charity arrives at Delta Halo with the largest Covenant fleet ever seen. 1065+ ships, possibly up to 5000 based off of the ratio between light and heavy ships in the Covenant’s fleets.

2552: 750+ Elite ships gather around a Covenant colony word during the Covenant-Civil War, most of the fleet was destroyed when the UNSC Nova bomb detonated.

That’s all I can think of right now.

Though what do you think on the issue with the HW scene here?

2500-3000 ships minimum cant say for sure how many they have, since we dont know how big the covenant really is beyond the homeworlds and the few colonies mentioned in the books. This is a bare bones number , the 750 ship fleet at reach, the 1000 ship fleet at High charity, the 200 or so that got wiped out by the nova bomb, plus a few hundred guarding the homeworlds & whatever

Agreed. I'm just looking at HW here, and how when you look at things it makes no sense really for the Covenant Navy to be small or the being strained by just five years of war with humanity and the light losses they have taken.

Ah, forgot to mention in addition to the thousand(s) of Forerunner Dreadnoughts already there the prototype Shield World is a shipyard so was also not limited to the ships in storage there.

Pay no attention to the grouchy joker-faced curmudgeon.

Very well.

So what do you think on this matter Tyralak?

1. The Covenant couldn't find UNSC worlds easily, due to the Cole protocol. This would mean that if the Arbiter wanted to take the entire fleet he would have to search thousands if not tens of thousands of star systems with it, which suggests a large number of ships for the Covenant Navy, not a small number.

2. There is zero reason to trust The Prophet of Regret in this case for the following reasons A: He is military incompetent as shown when he attacks Earth in H2 - defended by 300 SMAC Stations and at least 75 ships - with a fleet of only two Assault Carriers and 13 CCCS class-Battlecruisers. His comments also run in direct contrast to an Elite, who is not only a trained military commander(and therefore much more knowledgeable on the subject of the Covenant fleet status) but also less likely to lie being wrapped up in honor issues. B: He tries to secure this supposedly vital facility with the smallest Covenant fleet ever seen, made up of some of the lightest ship classifications in the Covenant Navy.

3. Regret could also have been in it for personal glory, finding the largest reliquary in all of Covenant history would have propelled him to being the greatest amongst equals(Truths position). It should be noted this is supported by canon (H:TCP).

So, comments?

Sorry for the long wait again, I've just been a bit busy again.

a 50MT bomb should leave a 3km crater, the 15MT Ivy mike device left a 2km crater, 5km is inconsistent with a teraton detonation, note the 100TT dino-killer left a 160km crater. a 5km crater is probably low GT range at best

I know, but we also have the fact that the entire surface terrain of the ring was flattened by the blast, and that it left a five km crater in the "superdense material", meaning that the five km crater is not impossible since this isn't just earth.

Or the teratons are just propaganda

...and the point of the propaganda would be what exactly? Because that would't fool anyone that knows a thing about their own tech.

No I applied the weaker end to ST and the higher to SW, there was no double standard in regard to ICS

It is a double standard in that you laughed at ridiculuos Halo high end yields then turned around and pulled out the more ridiculuos SW high end yields.

But it isn't important so lets just drop it.

Yup the same ones whose shock wave doesnt wipe out everyone on the ground in Halo 3

Hm, it is possible, though unlikely, that the portal may have been powering up as the UNSC ships fired and was already draining power. But, since I have no proof, it could go either way.

Yet hundreds are incapable causing significant harm to covenant ships while 58.5KT MAC guns destroy them in 3 shots on average

1. Still the same ones that went after a ship going at 100 million KPH.

2. Still the same round that some how crossed nearly 3,000 kilometers in seconds.

Scene change in the middle of the longsword escape allows for a possible timeskip.

Yes, I notice that was mentioned in the thread at SB, but we still have the fact that there was only 90 seconds or so left when the Longsword took off.

fireball issues render the PoA destruction suspect since the halos dont appear to have 100km of atmosphere among others, fireball duration, and lack of the double flash characteristic of high yield fusion detonations being some others

1. I don't see the problem with the atmosphere since the fireball was large enough to extend beyond it.

2. Fireball duration is perfectly in line since the atmosphere would have been blow off the ring at that section (plus the AG at that section may had been taken out by the PoA which would help).

3. On the double flash, I'll have to read up more before I can comment on it.

halo2 battle is useless without a measurable range, might only be 100km away. Not to mention technical issues due to game engine rendering

Problem is that they opened fire when the Covenant entered the Kill Zone of the Orbial Defense Platforms, which would be just under 100,000 kilometers out given what we see in TFoR going with low end SMAC speed of 0.04C.

the uncovering of the portal isnt indicative of any high firepower, voi is 140-150km from mombasa and depending on where the portal is in relation to the 2, a 1GT explosion in the middle of both would level residential housing on the exposed outskirts of both and caused thermal damage to exposed surfaces. A 1TT detonation would have incinerated everything in between the two, leveled everything within 260+km, leveled residential housing for almost 700km, non of which was seen in halo 2-3

1. My point on the portal is it sets a low end for firepower.

2. I'm going with the 25 kilometer diameter we see ingame and what the Halo Enc. gives since I don't trust Halopedia on the 108 kilometer diameter.

3. We know the Covenant would't have caused massive damaged because, A: They didn't use Plasma Torpedos which do explode.

B: The fact they thought they were uncovering the Ark and, being an extremely important Forerunner relic they don't want to damage.

C: We know that they were not even using ship to ship weapons because of ODST which mention that those beams are for digging, not combat.

as shown by MrOragahn and Monster104 on SBC halo3 has serious scaling issues

Hm, if I recall that thread correctly the only scaling issue was with the Dreadnought and Covenant ships.

so your high end in game representations are open to interpretation along with everything else

I find it depends on how you look at it really.

Though, what do you think of the acceleration the FUD showed at the end of H 3 since you didn't comment on that?

And now for the low showings just from the games, Bombardment of reach as seen in halo2, MAC gun firing in H3, Assault carrier getting ganked by a small chunk of high charity,Glassing of africa as seen in H3, uncovering the portal as seen in ODST, new membossa slipspace rupture rather less destructive than Implied in H2 ODST, and of course the secondary broadside weapons from Hwars, seven low-end from the highest canon. Newest showing of the highest canon suggest lower yields or technobabble

1. We only saw the very start of the bombardment. Also, we have the trailer for Halo:Reach which has fireballs as I recall being calced at 50 GT. Depending on what that game gives it could give Halo at least mid-double digit GT.

2. Agree, still possible the portal my have done something to the ships though given the acceleration the FUD showed later.

3. Glassing of Africa was done by the same non-combat beams mentioned in ODST and the Elites didn't want to damaged the nearby portal or the planet since the Humans were now allies.

4. We only saw the very start of the uncovering of the portal so we can't base it completely off that and the fact they may have been doing that to avoid any damaged to the portal if they didn't know the exact depth it was at.

8 actually see above i forgot about the slingshot

Well, at least it is something I can blame on Slipspace for real once.

If your joking there isnt any point in continuing, seriously defending highend halo is laughable in the extreme, and note most your examples involve the forerunners. The majority of the canon suggest lower yields or non DET weapons

I'm only joking on this last part of my post.

On Halo high end, I just find right know that there are just a few too many showings of the higher end stuff to completely throw it out. But, when the errors in the Halo Enc. are recton and if the .4C bit is among that I'll just take what it gives.

Prophet of Truth, who are you on SB?

At SB I'm the ProphetofWisdom.

And as I told you at SB, use the SDN calculator it accounts for relativity

I do, I just found this one quicker to use is all when I'm too lazy to use the SDN one.

No by all means produce a quote for ten-thousand ships, and given the conflicting nature of halo canon only an idiot really believes the high GT- TT calcs

The tens of thousands of ships was just a joke, you can see Halopedia for where I got it though.

Ah, so what we see at the end of Halo:CE never happened? So, the Halo just decided to self-destruct at that moment for the MC so he could kill the Flood and an entire Covenant fleet?

Irrelevant when they're supposed to tank a TT MAC round or three, they should be able to tank megaton proximity explosions

*Shrugs and blames Slipspace and ONI*

Edit: Forgot to add this before:

We also have the fact that new overrides old in the event of a contradiction in Halo canon. So the Halo Enc. being the latest source overrides all the older sources in the books.

Still doesnt change the fact SW canon numbers are bigger. 600tons @ 30,000m/s, of which covenant ships only take 2-3, and archer missiles with their HE warheads are viable antiship weapons. SW most pathetic showings are overridden by movie canon, which sadly isnt the case for halo

1. My point was that you pulled a double standard there was all.

2. Ah, you mean that MAC round moving at 30 km/s that took seconds to cross 3,000 or so kilometers?

3. You mean those Archer missiles that could race after a Covenant ship going at 100 million KPH for a short time before being shot down?

4. Let me see: End of Halo:CE PoA going off and Longsword doing 15,000-20,000 kilometers in 90 seconds. Halo 2, beyond visual range firing from UNSC ships as Covenant fleet entered the kill zone, which shoots down the 30 km/s MAC showing since the lowest SMAC showing would have it at 0.04C. Halo 3, the uncovering of the Ark Portal, the FUD doing 20,000 plus kilometers in about the same time as the Longsword in Halo:CE. Total High end events in the games: Five.

Hm, seems to me the games do support me so far.

For showings in the games that don't support me: Halo 3, three UNSC Frigates attacking the Dreadnought just before it opens the portal. End of Halo Wars: SoF can not escape without using a sling shot orbit around a star to gain a boost.But, it should be noted that they are using a Slipspace drive to destroy the mini-star, so the local physics are going to be really wonky.

Total low end events that agree with low end showings in the books: Two.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head in the games, I'll go over the books later.

DS, galaxygun, sun crusher, base delta zero, baradium fission devices, eclipse and sovereign class dreadnoughts.............yawn

Halo, Forerunner Battle Group, Slipspace drive, Glassing, High-end 1 Exaton NOVA Bomb, Forerunner Dreadnought.............yawn.

Sorry it took so long to reply, but I've been busy.

Wow, I'm overheated. That's like the third person I've bitten their head off for no good reason today.

No harm done, its happen to me too.

Only in that it has to do with the attitudes (and ages) of the people who bring up the debate. Most Halo-supporters are middle-school aged kids, and they generally don't have the education to play at our level. You seem to be an exception.

I understand, because that is one of the reasons I don't trust anything from Halopedia without checking three times.

B. Please point out were I ever claimed that I could take the Culture or 5th Imp since that seems to be what you are saying, because I said “most†in my post there. Also, wouldn’t the 4th Empire be better because it had a million planetoids?

*Sends Forerunner Fleet after Fifth Imperium and has Halo's put in place to wipe out the population of the Culture before moving in to take out the Minds with Slipspace ruptures*

Ah, I had a brain fart there and was thinking about the Covenant, I forgot about the Forerunner bit I mentioned with how busy I've been right now.

As I said before though I don't think even the Forerunner would stand a chance really, but that may depend on what the new Forerunner books add.

Actually, since you don't seem to be an idiot, I'll point you to a place where you can get the entire Dahak (Imperium) series for free. They're good reads, check them out.

Thank you, I'll check it out after I'm done reading "Sphere" in a few days.

The calculators are generally algebraic representations of more complex concepts, and it comes into play here, but the big part of the problem is I read 12,00 as 12,000.

 

 

 

With either of these figures, you have to start including complex calculations relating to atmospheric density in the fireball calculation, though.

 

 

 

The big key is to make sure that you know roughly where the calculator's model breaks down - in this case, at the edge of the atmosphere.

I'll put this in my list of things I should read about.

For our purposes, they are morons. For the same reason as you will hear me describe most non-literary (and a lot of literary) sci-fi writers/producers as morons. They are limited by their medium. We have to assume they are morons because otherwise you get things like an engineer claiming that 1 terawatt is the power output of his ship. This happens because the writers are used to the shorthand that we use in our everyday lives, like terawatt being used to mean terawatt-hour (or more accurately megawatt and megawatt-hour). We have to throw that kind of data out, because it very rarely jives with what is shown on-screen, or with basic logic.

Hm, I see.

This comes back to the typo/mis-read issue above.As I said, I wet too hot on that based on a typo.

That's ok, I've mis-read plenty of times myself.

*Snip*.

 

 

 

As I said above, something seems to be pissing me off today (aside from the fact that I can't spell because for some reason), and I probably went a little too hot.

I understand, I've seen enough of those types of rabid fanboys around when looking at sites.

And as I said before its ok, I've mis-read enough times myself.

THEN YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

 

 

 

<Tyralak - I want bigger fonts please>

 

 

 

Go read a goddamn book and then explain to me exactly how your pathetic video game civilization is going to take on either civilization.

 

 

 

And you know what, lets throw the 4th Imperium in there, too. Simply because the idea of smashing Halo-wankers dreams with more planetoids than they can count makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

 

 

The members of this board are well versed in just about every single science fiction series in literature/film/television/video games. If you want to play with us, you better be prepared.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which proves:

 

1. You're a moron who can only use internet calculators.

 

 

 

2, That the game designers are bigger morons than you are. (Of course, they designed Halo: Combat Evolved, so my starting assumption should have been "brain-dead" and worked down from there.)

 

 

 

3. The explosion was non-nuclear/antimatter, and did not function by creating a true fireball.

 

 

 

4. The game designers are morons.

 

 

 

5. You have no idea why a fireball forms.

 

 

 

6. The game designers are morons.

 

 

 

7. You have no understanding of why I am doing this.

 

 

 

8. The game designers are morons.

 

 

 

9. You are a video game wank-tard.

 

 

 

Please figure out why I am laughing at a 5,000 Km radius fireball. I want visual evidence from the game of this fireball please.

 

 

 

Also, since you are making such an extraordinary claim NO DIALOG.

A. Please explain to me what Halo being a video game has to do with this at all.

B. Please point out were I ever claimed that I could take the Culture or 5th Imp since that seems to be what you are saying, because I said “most†in my post there. Also, wouldn’t the 4th Empire be better because it had a million planetoids?

C. HAVE FAITH IN MY ABILITY TO LOOK SHIT UP! It worked when I was looking for the ringworld books by Larry Niven...but then those came close to causing my second bookcase ot collapse.

1. So what the frak? What did I do wrong then with the calculator and what the hell is wrong with not being able to do them? Not everyone can do all the calculations themselves and I've done well enough before in Vs. debates.

2. Which you have no proof of.

Also: Welcome to the Sci-fi universe know as HALO where ships are made out of super Weberfoam, see the amazing 4000 ton UNSC frigate from TFoR, and the amazing 20,000 ton Covenant battle group of 4 ships, two frigates, a destroyer and a carrier, stated be larger then any known Covenant ship.

3. Pg. 340 of Halo: The Flood.

As the cruiser's fusion drives went critical, a compact sun

 

blossomed on the surface of Halo. Its thermonuclear sphere

 

carved a five-kilometer crater into the superdense ring mate-

 

rial and sent powerful pressure waves rippling throughout

 

the structure. Both up- and down-spin of the explosion, the

 

fireball flattened and sterilized the surface terrain. Within

 

moments, the yellow-white core had consumed all of the

 

available fuel, collapsed upon itself, and winked out.

Noted as being fusion based and coming from the PoA.

4. Prove it, because Burden of Proof is on you to show that it was not what the designers wanted.

5. Right. How about explaining why that hurts my position when I have plenty of other canon events to support me (pg. 8 of TFoR, FUD at end of Halo 3 doing 20,000 plus kms in 90 seconds etc.etc)?

6. See four.

7. I admit I don‘t have a complete grasp.

8. See four and six.

9. So your entire argument is "LOL! Don't listen to him because I don't like Halo!"? I mean no offensive, but there is hard sci-fi, and then there's possibly worse then ST, Halo.

10. 5,000 km radius? Put in 120 Teratons,(120,000,000 megatons) in the calculator and you get this for the three types of radius listed:

Fireball radius (minimum) 736.9 kilometers

Fireball radius (airburst) 900.6 kilometers

Fireball radius (ground-contact airburst) 1187.2 kilometers

Which all happen to be fall in about the right area for the PoA.

Link:

Fusion reactors go critical at 0:56.

Now I know what your going to say: “The fireball didn’t last long enough!†Solution: When the PoA went off it may have knocked out the AG on that section of the ring and blasted the atmosphere clear. As we all know, a nuclear fireball doesn't last a fraction as long in vacuum as amosphere.

Now, what is your problem with Halo? Is it just because of that one idiot you told me about? Or the fact it has some of the worse consistency in sci-fi?

And have you actually read the source material on the Culture and The Fifth Imperium?Can you even tell me the AUTHORS involved without googling?I'll give you a hint, ONE planetoid is capable of doing more damage than your Covenant fleet.BTW, dipshit, did you do the math on that yourself? Because you did the math wrong, you're off by several orders of magnitude, and the fact that you are not giving me actual units suggests that you are just another idiot fanboy.How did you use the SDN nuclear effects calculator? What are your variables, what is the basis for using them? How did you scale?As for the accelerations, why don't you actually put those into SI units - you do know what those are, right?

No, I haven't read the books, I've seen enough though lurking around SBC to know only the Forerunner even stand a chance, and a small one at that.

Iain Banks for Culture, don't know about the Fifth Imp.

The normal Ships MAC yield was posted at SBC as 1.17 Teratons of TNT per shot for a 600 ton round at 40 PSL.

SMAC was 8.1 but I found a link for an online calculator that gives a higher yield of 9.98 Teratons of TNT for 3000 ton SMAC round at 50 PSL.

Link: http://www.1728.com/energy.htm

After adding in about the ten percent that this calculator leaves out I get the yields that seem to go with the ones at SBC and *Shudder in pure terror* Halopedia very well.

On the PoA.

As the Longsword was passing the other side of the ring I calc the section the PoA on to be about 315 kilometers in width up/down relative to the Chief in the Longsword. That puts the fireball of the PoA at about 1,000-12,00 kilometers in diameter.

It seems I misremember though were it was in TNT because putting it in at SDN again I got a smaller fireball so upped it to 120,000,000 megatons and the fireball size was about right. And that only left 5 kilometer crater in the ring (ref. Halo: The Flood).

And now a nice little link to a thread at SBC talking about Halo ship firepower:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?p=4512191#post4512191

pg. 3, post 60 has some good calcs on acceleration. Also look at the posts by SBer Nameless on pg. 4 of the thread because of the good points made there.

Everything I need to prove Halo firepower, even if is lower then Teratons in some cases, is right there in that thread.

80 million KPH is equal to 22,222KPS which is 7.4% of the speed of light. Trek ships exceed that on one quarter impulse alone.Trek ships alone can warp while tractoring other starships. Just to let you know, they can go into warp from a standstill. This alone vastly exceeds 10,000kms in 18secs.Being 20,000kms away from explosion within 90seconds is laughable since a Trek ship can exceed that distance easily within the same timeframe or with one second of going Warp One can land a Trek ship almost 15 times that distance.Theoretically (I know Trekkies here will dispute me saying that word) Trek ships can do the same thing. Get the same number of Trek ships, get their phasers calibrated for drilling and they can raise the temperature of a planet to the point of killing off all life and even boil away the oceans. Also they can destroy the atmosphere too. The tech is there it is just the willingness isn't.As for the MAC and SMAC numbers, I am trying to figure that one out. But for some reasons (I must be messing up with the numbers) I get 0.0001 and 0.007 tons respectively. That cannot be right. Got to try it again. :)Made the adjustments and it turns out that it is 17.2KT and 107.6KT respectively. Still not impressive. Today's nukes can easily exceed that.

On the acceleration you can look at the thread at SBC I linked to that has the calcs which make my point that Halo fusion is nothing like real world fusion.

And above you will note calcs for UNSC MAC guns and the PoA going off.

Oh yay now a moronic haloite as well. Covenant ships are vulnerable to proximity detonated 30MT HORNET mines, which means they are vulnerable to ST weapons. RotS: ICS, states a Venator class SD is capable of annihilating 40,000tons of hypermatter a second, and also says its DBY-827 HTLs are capable of taking the entire reactor output, equating to a 3.6e24J broadside. The ISB states the size of a sector group/fleet at 1600 warships we know from various other sources there are over 1000 sectors in the empire, putting the imperial fleet at over 1.6million shipsSW outguns and outnumbers the covenant.

Oh, wow, just because I’m a Haloite and support high Gigaton to low Teratons of TNT for firepower I’m a moron. Wow, so you just dump us all in one area in which we all equal idiots, huh?

Oh, and you left out how those Covenant ships had heavy battle damage from combat with Onyx Drones and a goddamn UNSC ship blowing up in THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN COVENANT FLEET!

And next we have a double standard you pulled there: You laugh at the .4C quote and and an inconsistent low firepower then turn around and cite the 800 Teratons with a straight face.

So, now for some quotes from SW books besides ICS since you want to pull a double standard:

"He tightened down on the trigger, pulsing kilojoules of scarlet energy into an eyeball's cockpit." [“X-Wing: The Krytos Trap“.54 ]

Kilo-joules - not mega- or giga-joules come out of fighter laser cannons.

" Two New Republic Assault Frigates, the Tyrant's Bane and Liberty Star, cruised in toward the Golan station. Though each ship was less than a third as long as the station, they bristled with fifty laser cannons and poured terajoules of coherent light into the Golan." [“X-Wing: Isard’s Revenge†p. 7]

This appears to say 100 capitol class laser cannon produce only terajoules energy - as in less than 100.

See, two can play at this game.

Now I rise your 800 Teratons with a low end NOVA Bomb calc found at SBC and Halopedia:

Halopedia on NOVA Bomb yield:

Assumptions: the moon is 2km, and the NOVA bomb is only 5,000 km away.

 

 

 

Calc: Apply the Inverse Squared Law: Source Energy / (4 * Pi * R2) the radius is the distance from the source to the range.

 

 

 

x/ (4 * 3.14195... * 5,0002) = 4 Megatons per square kilometer to fragment a 2km moon which requires 8 Megatons to be fragmented.

 

 

 

x = 1.2 Petatons.

 

 

 

Some may find this yield hard to believe for a fusion device, but the stated effects to the planet and nearby moon require explosive power of this magnitude.

And if I remember correctly the NOVA Bomb is about the size of an SUV and has nine fusion warheads. That sort of shoots down any idea of the lower yields, because if the UNSC could create this and Covenant ships could be taken out by MT level warheads then why didn't they just use the resources needed to create one NOVA Bomb to spam a Covenant fleet with dozens of nukes?

Now: *Throws Xeeleeverse at 5th Imp and Culture*

[END TRANSMISSION]

-Truth

Numbers please, moron.

 

 

 

I've already taken apart one idiot on this forum, are you going to provide any evidence for your idiotic claims?

Pg. 316 of the Halo Encyclopedia.

MAC GUN

 

 

 

The Magnetic Accelerator Cannon [MAC] Gun is one of the largest [and best] weapons that the UNSC has in its fleet. Utilizing thousands of magnetic relays, it can ram a 600-ton projectile at nearly forty percent the speed of light. *Skiping stuff about slow reload time and battle of Reach*

 

 

 

VARIANTS

 

 

 

STABILZED VARIANT: The "Super" Mac or "Big" Mac is five-hundred percent larger than the ship-based original and is capable of firing a 3,000-ton slug at nearly half the speed of light. Due to its size, a Super MAC can only be stationed on planets or orbital weapons platforms.

Ship MAC round at 40 PSL = 1.17 Teratons of TNT.

SMAC round at 50 PSL = 9.98 Teratons of TNT.

For more proof you have Halo:CE where we see the PoA go off, and using the SDN Nuke Calculator, it comes out to the mid-double digit TT area.

I also have the isance acceleration rates from the books and games that need far more then should be possible with fusion.

For the books: TFoR: a frigate is stated by the Cpation to be able to do 80 million KPH.

First Strike: Frigate with a Covenant ships straped on does 10,000 kms in 18 seconds from a stand still.

The Games: End of Halo:CE: Longsword is 15,000-20,000 thousand kms away from the PoA when it blows. This took about a minute and a half.

End of Halo 3: The FUD does a greater distance in about the same amount of time.

What these ships do should be far beyond what fusion should allow, but they somehow manage these feats.

I also have pg. 8 of The Fall of Reach in which a Covenant fleet of 36 ships boiled away the oceans and atmosphere of a planet in one hour.

*Plasma Torpedos hit with dozens of Teratons of force*

[END TRANSMISSION]

-Truth

A Covenant fleet?

 

 

 

<cue hysterical laughter>

 

 

 

The guys who got their asses kicked by a single man in a power armor suit?

 

 

 

<cue hysterical laughter>

 

 

 

Are you seriously going to tell me that you think that a video game empire could prevail against people who actually DO dwarf the powerful of the ST and SW universes?

 

 

 

I will take your Covenant fleet <hysterical laughter again> and raise you the Fifth Imperium. And in the next round, I'll raise you the fucking CULTURE.

 

 

 

The Covenant

 

 

 

<hysterical laughter>

You are now a Covenant target for glassing, *Cue Multi-Teraton Plasma Torpedos being fired at 0.5 C*

One guy in a power suit? Oh, so the UNSC marines didn't exist, neither did Cortana who hacked the hell out of everything, and neither did the Flood now, huh?

Oh, and the fact that the guy in power armor happened to be so badass that he fought through odds that should be impossible.

Since their is no proof of an MC in ST or SW they are both glassed.

*Runs away from Fifth Imperium and Culture* I'm not insane, I know right where I stand in Sci-Fi firepower scale with the Covenant.

*Sends Forerunner Fleet after Fifth Imperium and has Halo's put in place to wipe out the population of the Culture before moving in to take out the Minds with Slipspace ruptures*

[END TRANSMISSION]

-Truth

Greetings. I am the Prophet of Truth, you will now bowdown before me or burn under the firepower of tens of thousands of Covenant ships.

I look foward to the Vs. debates in which I pwn nearly everyone else with a Covenant fleet.

[END TRANSMISSION]

-Truth