Ado Mortumee

The entire Antaran Hegemony of the Master of Orion series as of three years after the conquest of the Orion Sector is transported to the Unknown Regions of the Star Wars galaxy one year before the events of A New Hope. Can the Antarans be stopped or will they conquer the galaxy? Bonus: The Orion star system has also been transported to a random area of the Core, how does this effect the Empire’s chances against the Antarans if they can take the system?

It also has to do with my sad lack of knowledge of a lot of SF stuff. Ouch. Poor poor GE and UFP.

The entire Antaran Hegemony from Master of Orion II has been transported to a remote area of the Alpha Quadrant on the eve of the Dominion War. So can the Antarans be stopped or will they conquer the galaxy? Bonus: The Orion star system has also been transported to a random area of the Alpha Quadrant, how does this effect the Star Trek races chances against the Antarans if they can take the system?

1. I'm EVIL!!!! And both sides have a lot of stuff that explodes really well. 2. Their among the few Sci-fi series I know a lot about. And see above on stuff exploding. 3. This isn't that bad. Standard ST Warp cruie speed at 1000 C is twice the 455 C of the Antarans(9 persecs per month comes out to 455 C for me) and we know they can go far faster when needed. So they have plenty of time to come up with something to try and counter the Antarans.

I think they have a lot more to worry about than just that: A lot of treknology tech here is going to be a major edge in favor of the Antarans. Now, where's that quote about the Antarans and Orions tossing entire star systems at each other...

This site has a list of MoO2 Antaran ships, a list of MoO2 technology, and links to other sites such as the one under “Fiction†called “MoO Universe†that is a link to the massive back-story. They also have Doom Stars:

Just a short reply until I can get the links I need: 1. Games are still the highest canon outside of the Halo Bible and anything said by Bungie. The New>Old thing was that if part of the Halo 3 canon was different than Halo 2 canon Halo 3 was to be used. But as long as the books can be reconciled we their still good. 2. I have to say at this point fuck the "NEW"! edition of The Fall of Reach. It has been well established by canon at this point that the UNSC has known about Elites for decades yet it still sticks with them being a recent addition to Covenant frontline forces! Now the date for the Battle of Reach is 2542 which is completely wrong! UNSC fleet numbers are still the same around Reach but now there are 700 Covenant ships in the first attack wave and Keyes still considers the UNSC only outnumbered 3(2?)-1! I mean we've known since H 2 when Hood said "Something isn't right. The Fleet that destroyed Reach was fifty times this size." That the TOTAL Covenant fleet size had been larger then though going just by the book! But come on! The Halo Encyclopedia has some errors when it comes to dates and weapons ranges (or their just suppose to be that silly short range for real) but even it isn't THIS bad! The only "NEW" canon here is the 27 pages that have been added. At this point I am simply not going to consider ALL of this new canon since one of the major reasons they were making new editions was to fix the errors not put more in! I am so glad I read what others had to say before going out and buying this new edition. 3. Gah! What Tyralak said! The blue! It may be my favorite color but it burns the eyes!

The new edition of TFoR? Don't have it but what I hear is it is 99% (just 27 new pages) the samething with more errors but keeps everything pretty much the same otherwise as the first edition. Which requires us to ignore The Storm scene from Halo 3 (being the latest game at the time it overrules the silly sub-kiloton bullshit we're seeing in H 2) and the fact that we can not even see the Covenant ships when the fleet and ODP's open fire. Can't really use the scene since it can support both of us here. Halopedia? I am not using the site, I'm using the official canon book the Halo Encyclopedia. Also the yield is 1.17 Teratons, I've run the numbers myself on the SDN calculator and then run them there a conversion site and like other calcs before it came out to 1.17 Teratons. And until the new cashgrab by 343/Microsoft it overruled older showings per the Halo Canon policy given by Bungie that in the event of a contradiction that could not be reconciled the latest canon is the superior canon. You really seem to be having epic reading comprehension failure here. I already gave you the quote from the canon book the Halo Encyclopedia, and now that what is the "new" edition of TFoR goes back to the older numbers the best we're getting out of MAC guns is several thousand kps going by the ranges they fight at. And I conceded at least for the time being that the E-D wins. The older books meaned nothing (in fact they supported it when it comes to power output see my link to Nattou's calcs again wtih an ingame event to support it to boot) and the games had yet to directly contradict it in such a way that it could not be reconciled and have events such as the Autumn going off and the massive accelerations that support massive power generation.

I saw that. Though what do you think on the above? I mean he has no proof for ML tech being used on weapons or a second explosion on Alpha Halo. Anyways: Mith, I concede and leave this debate, ok? So you don't have to bother replying to the above, ok? I've have a bad enough day as it is.

And I am still bitter at Mith. I still call bullshit on his ML Tech being used to fire MAC Guns claims (like his "Hey! Why don't we assume without any reason beyond my say-so that they just left out the ML tech in the H Enc.! And I'll also pull out of thin air that they need to come to a stop to turn off the ML tech!" Really, he has no proof for this claim and I already proven to him with that link that even with ML tech at 4000-6000 tons their still in the GT per second range on their reactors). Or his claim that the large explosion at the end of CE is not the Autumn... once again completely unsupported. You think the author be nice enough to, ya' now, mention the reactor that must have been hit when the Autumn went off that really destroyed the ring. There is also his reading comprehension failure: The fireball didn't flatten out inside the atmosphere it "flattend and sterilized the surface terrain". And if he really is bitter he can take it up with my new bodyguard: Dark Helmet. Remember this line: "Yes, that!" - Dark Helmet as he crushed some poor AssHole's nuts:P

"What do I need that for? Didn't I just concede the debate at least until more sources on Covenant firepower come out? Ent-D wins."

And it was out of date until the numbers from the "new" edition of TFoR came. Which means you were ignoring Halo canon policy by attempting to use an older source over the new one (the scene isn't even consistent given the Covenant ship was 3000 kilometers away and the MAC round hit in only several seconds). So a bit dishonest there wouldn't you say? ANd where did I say they didn't? Their shields at best reach into the low GT range if we double the yield to 10 MT (a far more likely yield given the size and the duration of the explosions). Seems I was mistaken, but I take the 30MT pure nuke given I recall this being backpack size like the 30MT ones used by the Spartans in TFoR. Start of the TFoR also now overrules this given that the Spartans only consider the 30MT nuke being able to take out a Covenant ship after it dropped shields in atmosphere. Also why don't you look at the current MAC page? That one last I checked used the Halo Encyclopedia 40% and 50% SPL... bit dishonest using an out of date page? Not that it really matters now since the best example for MAC firepower is now The Storm. And as I said I for the time being conede given the Halo Encyclopedia states are thrown out now (Cue Mith's head imploding in 5...4...3...2...1 ).

Sensing a massive disturbance in the Force caused by Lord Vader and Dark Helmet fighting, Palptain travels to Cloud City to either take Helmet as his new apprentice or destroy him. Like in the above [strikethrough]completely canon[/strikethrough] video Dark Helmet turns him down and they fight. Who wins?

Is that why Vader is over there screaming "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"? See the end of Star Wars VS Space Balls pt 1., and then read the OP again. DH can't turn the Emperor down if he is already dead.

Which is of course from the outdated page. Though it doesn't matter since from what I hear the cashgrab by 343/Microsoft put out a version of TFoR that kept the same numbers for MACs and is full of MORE errors than the first! Also I point to Halo 3 in which we see MAC round shots easily in the low double digit MT range and the RoF is 2 seconds between each volley. Now taking the average charge time(s) that the books go for your looking at assuming each shot in The Storm was 5 MT between 125 (30 second charge time) up to 250 MT (60 second charge) as low and upper low ends for a fully charge MAC gun. And means what? We know they can easily accelerate after Halo ships which have consistent acceleration outside of a few outliers in the hundreds to thousands of Gs. And Halopedia is f**king wrong because EACH MINE WAS 30 MEGATONS. I have to ask why you are using outdated pages from Halopedia which can't even get a single quote right? For the time being I'm just conceding. See what the new and hopefully error free version of the Halo Encyclopedia (IIRC there is suppose to be a new version coming out that is updated for Halo: Reach) and what Halo Reach has to say on the issue.

Yes but we know that Palpatin will stop after the first blast to talk about how he is nothing next to the power of the Dark Side of the Force. Then the Downside of the Schwartz crushes his balls like in that video. "Yes, that!" - Dark Helmet as he Schwartz Ball Crushed Emperor Palpatin.

Remember how you said Vader doesn't have balls to Schwartz Ball Crush? Palpatin has balls. Also Helmet still beats Vader I say.

Dark Helmet falls through a plot hole into TESB right after Vader cuts off Luke’s arm in Cloud City. Vader decides to show this imposter who the true Dark Lord is. Who wins?

And its my problem how? I fully agree. But for the time being canon supports my position firepower given GoO is lower canon. I'm sorry, but there's this thing called "canon", when it says that the laws of physics in X universe are slightly different than Y-verse we don't use universe Y's laws of physics in place of univese X's. We assume they continue to work as shown in either universe. And linky: http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=4517844&postcount=60 Nice lie, asshole. So lets look at this, shall we? I put an important part in bold for you. But first: Tell me where it says there was another large explosion that wasn't the Pillar of Autumn's fusion cores going off, please. I clearly must be blind given I don't see it there. Now note the bold part that the explosion put a five-kilometer crater in the superdense ring material - not the upper surface with the ground, but the ring material below. So please quantify this material and show it backs up your claim. Only the very base of High Charity is made out of a chunk of the Prophet homeworld; the vast majority of it was built by the Covenant.. And Cortana failed to mention any chain-reaction and was very sure that In Amber Clad would blow up the station. No evidence? Do you mean the dialogue from the episode? Here: Planets crust would be destroyed within one hour. Thirty percent of the planet's crust destroyed in the opening volley. So their too stupid to continue firing and completely destroy the plant in minutes? Or how do you explain them destroing thirty percent of the planetary crust with a single volley? I don't deny they can use that level of firepower, but if they do it seems clear that they need to make sure to kill or at least cripple the Destroyer with it on the first try or their dead. Feel free to point out this rather vital Mass Lighting device used to fire the rounds. Because the fact they don't mention what is a vital component to firing the MAC shells at these speeds kind of shoots you down. Go ahead and quantify the superdense ring material then. Because until you do it means nothing more than Forerunner materials used for the rings are insanely strong. Also the book continues to say your talking bullshit about what we see in the game not being the Pillar of Autumn going off given their is no mention of a large secondary explosion. Bungie hates to retcon things you see (stated in the same source as New>Old). The first thing you do in the event of contradictions in the canon of a the universe in question is to see if the sources can be reconciled. Guess what? In this case it is a simple matter to reconcile them given Slipspace was fucks up anything we can get out of that without another example in a non-Slipspace affected area. The older books Vs the Halo Encyclopedia? Not so much given there is no mention of this vital Mass Reduction technology they need per you to be able to fire their MAC rounds at the speeds needed to hit Covenant ships. Please point out where I made an argument of it. I simply mention the alternative to MR tech and said pick whichever one you want. Been sometime since I watch the episode so I didn't recall that. Point still stands though its a double standard given we don't know what the UNSC uses in Archer missiles. I'll have to watch the episode again, but I don't recall it being very much. I'll get back to you on it after double checking with MA and seeing if I can find it on Youtube.

The Fleet Master out numbered them, he could afford the to lose a few ships. And is it silly? Yes. But it doesn't change anything given that within its own canon tier the Halo Encyclopedia overrules older canon. So I guess all those accelerations by UNSC ships that still require Gigaton range per second outputs (Nattuo's calcs, see Halo firepower thread on this site for the link) are just mass hallucinations, and the Pillar of Autumn didn't go off in a multi-Teraton explosion, and Cortana was clearly already rampant when she said In Amber Clad's reactors going off would be enough to destroy High Charity. And I'm more than willing to allow it given it would clearly cripple the firing ship for a time (1 hour to remove crust, opening volley destroyed 30% crust. This kind of knocks out any chance of standard ship based firepower). To move their ships are 1000+ Gs. You will of course prove with a canon source that they use it on MAC rounds. Pillar of Autumn, the only stated source for the massive explosion at the end of Halo CE, easily was in the high TT range. Given the reactor could output and withstand this forces for a time... what reason do they have for not cranking up the juice and firing what would basically be ship based SMAC's? Or just detonate ships inside Covenant fleets to completely wipe them out? Translation: Wah! I don’t want to reconcile the newer canon with the older games if possible. We can easily reconcile the Halo Wars with the older GAMES by this fact alone. Unless you would care to explain why out of the blue Bungie decided everything showings massive accelerations and ships crossing massive distances in the other games is suddenly wrong. It perfectly explains the inconsistent acceleration in Halo Wars and we do not have to throw out three games worth of evidence for massive acceleration. Either that or they have absurdly low density materials that are so strong that it is a fit you can walk around on them without falling through the floor. Take your pick. Insurrection: Two Son'A ships, who together can outfight the Enterprise-E, and take quantum torps without flinching, are destroyed by the chemical incendiary explosion that results from the detonation of 'Metrion Gas.' Chemical reactions of that nature are, compared to nuclear fission/fusion and M/AM reactions, absolutely pathetic. But this kind of silly stuff is what you can expect to see in sci-fi. Night Terrors: the Enterprise D's weapons cache is once again proven to be inferior to the chemical explosion of the volatile anicium and yurium components of a man's cargo. So, kind of a double standard to complain about the UNSC using chemical weapons.

True. On the Fleet Master going after the humans he still had 16 ships vs their 4. He could afford to lose ships to take them out. I doesn't matter since the Halo Encyclopedia is still higher canon at this time. You mean the same game where we see both SMAC stations and ships open up the moment the Covenant fleet enters the kill zone - and are still BvR? Also Halo 3 overrules it by showing of MT range explosions on the Keyship. The stories are canon, but the visuals per Frank O'Conner can not be taken as accurate. Already conceded on weapons range. Also please prove they fight at high C speeds given we never see that anywhere I can recall, and both BoBW and FC (Movie) so them not fighting at high C speeds. I'm not, I simply corrected him on standard Covenant glassing operations, and pointing out that TDiC can be explain by the standard treknobabble and an overcharged super shot that leaves the ship defenseless for a time. I can agree there are plenty of outliers, but the fact remains there are still far to many high ends in Halo that even have support in the games. IF the new novels show and Halo Reach conclusively prove it wrong I will concede. And you will of course give us this quote in which Bungie explicitly says Covenant weapons are not pure DET? Becuase the only quote I know of on the matter doesn't mean much currently simply because it doesn't give enough infomration. And the Booster Frames are lower canon than both books and games and are contradicted by higher canon throughout (take for exmaple Halo rings appearing in orbit of Covenant home worlds... yeah, nice of Halo Legends to go and attempt to f**k over the higher canon games). And the fact their ships are so light proves nothing unless you happen to have a quote that proves this use it to fire the MAC. Because until then Occam’s Razor frowns upon you. But lets say they do use to fire the MAC round, guess what? Unless you prove that its on the round itself the moment it leaves the MR field generated by the ship it is a 600 ton slug moving at 40% the speed of light for a grand total of 1.17 Teratons. And on Halo 2 I will once more point out that the first shots we see are fired at BvR when Cortana goes loud. Also the same game in which Cortana considers detonating a Frigates to be enough to wipe out High Charity.

Good to see you Mr. O. Yep, those ships had been damaged and were stated to be in the middle of making repairs when drawn into the trap. Seems like it can vary from type of weapon their using and what the exact objectives of the glassing operation in question are (Forerunner relic and such being on the planet). Not really, only took 36 ships in TFoR, and we know the Covenant have multiple fleets numbering in the mid to high hundreds with at least one over a thousand. I don't think we were given an idea of how large that river was in TCP. Also it may have been the ship that craves the Covenant Symbol into the planet since we know other ships were charing up Plasma Torpedoes. Agreed. Though it does look like they may attempt long range it looks like after all, wouldn't last long since the Covenant ship can make a tac jump to close the distance again. Most showings have high accelerations with only 3-4 outliers (and yes, there does appear to be some form of mass lighting involved given that four Covenant ships detected in Slipspace, mistaken for a single object, at 20,000 tons was stated to be larger than any known Covenant vessel), and their high maneuverability would give them a good chance to try and dodge Plasma Torpedoes at range. Plasma Torpedoes seem to vary against targets: Against spaceships the Covenant seem to just keep the plasma contained and melt through them, but when fired at planes it explodes like a nuclear weapon. ANd I agree, either containment or its the symbols they crave into planets (as I've said many times before though I don't have Evolutions to confirm some things). And I assume your taling about the Halo Wars scene? I don't recall anything werid about that. TFoR states that a MAC shot can cripple or destroy all but the most largest UNSC warships. Given that latest canon information puts MACs closer to Covenant glassing levels I'm doubting their theartened by lesser weapons. Also where do we see UNSC threaten by Megaton range nukes? The Covenant have been using Antimatter since the first game (Cortana mentions they musted have used an Antimatter charge to take out the MAC), this retcon at least allows Covenant glassing operations to make some sense. How Halo firepower really goes all depends on the new updated and revised versions of the first three books. Easily reconciled by the Slipspace drive they dropped in it, those things have a history of making the local laws of physics cry. Sameway the Spartans with jetbacks chased after the ship going at 100 million KPH: Accelerated after it. Can't confirm it but Evolutions from what I've heard has retcon Archers to having nuclear warheads. Alos, I believe there are two Star Trek episodes in which chemical explosives proved to more powerful than the Photon Torpedoes of the Enterprise. So Halo having overpowered chemical weapons isn't anything new. True, its been a while since I watched Nemesis. Pointed conceded. The pair of Covenant Frigates came to stop, turned, and fired Plasma Torpedoes which chased the UNSC Destroyer down.

A danger to a UNSC that had taken damage to its reactor (IIRC they were not able to make full repairs, and IIRC it was also slightly damaged by the Shiva warheads the Commander dropped). As I recall it was not a standard Firgate but a Light Frigate, and any showings of slow speed in the book are overruled by the games in which we have showings to back up the older books (End of Halo 1, Halo 2, and end of Halo 3). Ok, point conceded. I'm just going to drop this point and let Mr. O go over it if he wants to. And did they fight at these speeds? Also, FTL Impulse? Were they talking about the time that would go by on the Enterprise at those speeds? The bulk of combat does (several dozen showings that have the ships being stated to be at X range or at least and idea of the range and accelerating across it in a short amount of time and fightings in other cases). I haven't watched DS9 beyond a couple clips on Youtube, but unless I am mistaken didn't they also slow down to standard on screen speeds once they were in range? I'm not disregarding the Halo low end, I'm looking at the most common numbers (even if showings in TCP are lower than other books the Game Trilogy still supports the older books) and taking them for Halo, but given most of my ST knowledge is limited to TNG and a movie or two (and we all know why that is given how horrible VOY and ENT are for the mind) so its a bit harder for me to get put together all the pieces. I do try and go for the medium/average showings, just I'm mostly limited to TNG due to DS9 never being on, TOS only being on at 1 AM Saturday, and VOY and ENT... I don't think I really need to say anything more on those last two, do I? I never made the Covenant magically competent, just saying what average ship to ship combat is. Conceded since Kor listed them. At least now I know the reason I don't know about them: Most of them taking place in the series that causes eyes to melt. Halo Encyclopedia and the fact it takes two MAC rounds to down Covenant Destroyer shields. 600 tons at 40% C = 1.17 Teratons of TNT (please note the 117, this suggests someone did sone research on it). 3000 tons at 50% = 9.98 Teratons of TNT. I was really just mentioning the TT range again to remind Enigma this will come back to haunt him in SW vs ST.

One Episode Vs the combine Star Trek canon... did it also fire them at ships at sub-light speeds? So how many showings of the Ent-D attacking other ships in normal space from Warp speed are there? And does it have enough Photon Torpedoes to take down shields rated in either the GT or low TT range? If not they would have to slow down to sub-light speeds and attack with Phasers.

Oh, I am not saying they can't accelerate up to those speeds, just that isn't what they fight at. Yep, and most of the time we see them fighting on screen they move very slowly in combat. I think so, but they did get the Impulse engines back online just before Picard order full Impulse. Typo, 150 million kilometers in just over 8 minutes. Torpedoes are reported to fire on page 148 and impact stated to be in 19 seconds. UNSC Destroyer accelerates away and count down continues as the Torpedoes match then overcome the Desttoyer's velocity. At bottom of page 149 it is reported that the Torpedoes were 300,000 kilometers away and would impact in 2 seconds. Total travel time to cross 300,000 kilometers two seconds, high end range for Plasma Torpedoes assuming .5 C for total travel time 9 light seconds. Books and games. For an example of Covenant acceleration take Halo 2: When they arrive at Delta Halo the way the scene goes heavily implies that it took no more than a couple minutes for the Prophet's Carrier to accelerate across tens of thousands of kilometers to Delta Halo. Also the games have not conclusively contradicted the books yet given we have mutiple in-game showings of acceleration that match up with what we see in the books. Since when did the Ent-D get a magical competence boost? I don't believe I mention that in the OP. Yes, and it will come back to haunt you in SW Vs. ST debates. Possbily in the form of him on the ST side: