InvaderSkooj

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Some shots did indeed come from the dorsal part of the ISD, so from HTLs

 

screencaps I gotta see this

I'll have to try and find Voyager's crash again, I don't remember much of its crashing speeds. They were under the "planetary shields", and made no mention of them, so why should we assume they had any? In fact, the only thing we saw them deploy, or even heard of, were those "firefighter" ships that escorted the "Invisible Hand" during its crash, doing their best to extinguish the flames...

Point is the potential is there, unlike voyager where the ship was crippled and crashing on a barren snowball

And the saucer herself probably masses a bit less then half the ships' mass, so about 2.2 million metric tons... Still massive, and still crashed with only thrusters as was mentioned in the movie...

Still doesnt prove the entire ship could survive without all their toys

Which we have no proof off. Even the unpowered BoP in ST IV wasn't crushed under its own mass, and we have no reason to assume that Starfleet vessels are any less rugged...

Klingon designs arent as silly as UFP ones

Well, if the ships don't always explode when hit, then how can you say AM is bad an really unstable? SW ship also explode violently when fired upon, and when crashed in, and yet you argue that Hypermatter is stable? Pot-kettle-black, I say...

Dont actually remember them saying everything was powered by M/AM

Yes, they would have seen the Falcon until it started going behind the tower, and only after that would have lost it. But it would have been detected long enough for the officers on the ISD to consider the fact it was hiding behind the tower and to send in Ties to look for it... And ST sensors are far, far better...

You mean the same sensors that have problems tracking FTL objects, blind spots,allow ferengi hiding in craters to lay ambushes at close range, have lost track of ships in asteroid fields, been baffled by, radiation, magnetic poles, electrical storms, lagrange points, and nebulae. Yup clearly superior. By all means prove that they should have been able to figure out they were hiding, the bridge officers didnt know the MF hyperdrive was broken

But nowhere near a "blind spot" in the sensors, like the gaping one on the ISD... I agree, it would be dumb to think that SW sensors cannot detect anything behind them, and clearly they can, but they do seem to suffer from hhuge blind spots, moreso on an ISD...

Just big enough to lose ships in asteroid fields, and allow ferengi to hide in craters, and in lagrange points

But the point remains, an ISD has gaping holes in its sensor grid right behind it, so even if it had weapons that can fire right behind it they would be useless, unless fired visually, and then they'd still suffer from the bad marksmenship we're used to from SW. But, again, we see no such weapons on any plans, and that huge tower blocks most of the fore weapons from even targetting anything behind the ISD.

Requires much assumption. We know other ships can see behind them, and turrets can rotate, the ICS drawings are from the FRONT, Most the weapons on an ISD are too small to see anyway, and we've never seen anyone attack an ISD from the rear.

The Rebels in the trench run still had to visually confirm that Ties were indeed on their tails, they were constantly looking over their shoulders to spot them. The MF was able to come in unannounced and take the Ties by surprise, again demonstrating the weakness of SW sensors...

No worse than feddies getting ambushed by ferengi hiding in craters

Except for the article Enigma showed us that the armor on these globes is not very powerful. But I've agreed for some time that the fleet firing at the SSD easily explains the failings of its shields. What I've been saying all along is how big of a target these globes are...

Which is quite irrelevant since its impossible to know how much energy it takes to expose them

Except that you can't, since we've seen that it takes many hits, and a ship many times bigger then a Tie crashing in the engineering section of a GCS to destroy it.

Never said it'd take only one. Now a Nubian Royal Starship on the other hand

As for the Vorcha, again, we've seen it takes two 80-100 meter long vessels crashing into it to destroy it (after a long battle, just like your SSD).

Yup right at the beginning of the battle

Like I have said many times, the Globes are big targets, and concentrated fire on them will destroy them, moreso on an ISD then an SSD, but in now way have I ever said they would be easily destroyed...

And knock out shields to the bridge, In the meantime the ST ship could have been rammed by gods knows how many TIEs, and shot god knows how many times by TLs

Yeah, I do believe most of your "mental" has turned into vapor.

That shit evaporated long ago

Since an ISD2 has a peak reactor output of 9.28e24w or 2.64 zettatons. How much of it can be directed towards the turbolasers? I mean even just half the output was put towards the turbolasers while blasting away at a planet (assuming the ISD2 can utilize all of it's turbolasers) in a period of 24 hours that is 114.048 zettatons. 342.144 zettatons if you use three ISD2s. How much damage can 342 zettatons do to an earth type planet?

 

 

 

Yeah, the numbers are funky and not to be taken too seriously.

e24 is petatons, e30 is zettatons it would be zettawatts however

Not just destroy Care taker station same way US nuclear bomb destroy Nagasaki I am talking about turn a longer amount mental into vapor.

 

Prove its more, Fat Man vaporized a sizable chunk of Nagasaki, and prove it tetryon reactors didnt help.

 

the 2 tricobalt devices would be equal about 10 Fat Men

The sad thing is my megatons per shot will still be too high for them, since it still implies the unholy "G" word

Come on! 8.3 Teratons per mount, per second is fun!

 

 

 

The fireball will last 1.6 hours and be 820km wide!

 

 

 

EDIT: Create impulse shock directly to the mantle.

You forgot the ejecta being thrown into low orbit, to rain down somewhere else

The problem is that the inverse square law makes you it's bitch in space.

Yes,......... damn you 1/r^2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is why you wait for them to go down to a planet, then nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure

That's my calculation for the amount of power available per mount... so back end.

 

 

 

MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah this is my I bent over backwards for low numbers but still try to accommodate as much canon as possible, not my boil the top 300m of the oceans to destroy the fisheries

What happens when you plug in 3.472e22J/sec into that?

Which end? Front end drops it down couple OoM, Backend bumps it up about 5 or 6

 

 

 

 

 

Although by joules per second I presume you mean the backend

Mith has been off his rocker since before TCW came out.

It's the one thing in SW I think he truly loves, although yes, Mith has be crazy for years.

 

 

 

I blame the great RSA-Sarli-KJA-Traviss conspiracy

To be fair, space is different...

I doubt the caretaker array was as big as Nagasaki though

Are you drunk? Or are you just a fucking idiot?

Mith just thinks the cartoon is the highest cannon

Uh, funny how you forgot that only Borg nanoprobes work against Species 8472. And considering that the Empire doesn't have those, good luck supporting that theory.

 

Except when the borg use them

If you wish to see evidence Watch this vidoe see what the Tricobalt devices can do to Caretaker space station.

 

Watch vidie from minutes 37 to 37 minute 12 secound see why were power genenerations are. Then watch the this minute and 39 minte and 8 secounds to about 40 minute and 8 secounds to see Tricobalt device fire at.

 

http://www.56.com/u6...TY4NzYxNjk.html My link

 

 

 

As we can see Tricobalt device destory Care taker station with out main power generator to help with getting destroying back the clain weapon heave punch. It unlikley Star Destoryer surival get hit more ten.

It only took 20 kilotons to blow up Nagasaki, and as I proved with your figures the tricobalt devices are almost 5 times as powerful

My interpretation doesn't even require TLs to be gigaton weapons. 1 petaton(a million gigatons) is 4.184e24J/ 3 ISDs/ 24 hrs/ 3600s/ 100TLs average 38.5 megatons per shot. At 4 shots a second we're down to 9.65 megatons a shot

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InvaderSkooj:

 

The same Thrawn books indicated that a fleet of 200 outdated Dreadnaughts were sufficient to significantly impact the war between Thrawn and the New Republic for whomever got it first.

 

In an Empire of millions of ships, that seems dumb, doesn't it?

Nope that was the Thrawn Trilogy, nice red herring by the way

 

 

 

And as for the bombardment of Caamas, three ISDs firing even low Megaton shots, say each firing once per second, for a full 24 hours, is more then enough to devastate a world (Mith is very generous in his assumptions, considering we've never seen the same ROF in ISDs as we saw in TCW ships).

 

If we only calculate 1 HTL at 1Mton per second, for three ships, in 24 hours more then 259 200Mtons are fired upon the surface of the world.

 

I'm pretty sure the MTLs and LTLs will also fire at least at 1 shot per second per ship, which adds significantly to the damage.

 

And what damage was that?

While that would cause widespread planetary scale damage, it still wouldn't cause the extinction of all life. For 3 star destroyers just to get to dino-killer level in 24hrs requires 385 megatons/ second

 

 

 

 

 

Well, according to Wookiepedia:

 

 

 

And we know ISDs usually act within a small fleet, so their Ties and the accompanying ships would take care of the "mop-up" operations...

 

No slagging, no atomized topsoil, no boiled off oceans...

 

 

 

3 GCS firing all their torpedoes, and then firing their Phasers once per second for 24 hours would obtain similar results...

 

 

 

 

And given how they have trouble with very large rocks if they can do such a feat it wouldn't be through DET. And I wouldnt count on it, The Dominion had trouble doing that to Cardassia with hundreds or thousands of ships, and the breen attack on Earth was also unimpressive.

Surely not good sir.

TRANSLATION: TCW overrides EU

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Says who? I find this to be a rather curious statement. First, it is not required. You can assure death of all life on a planet with megatons of energy and some time to spare, especially with 24 hours. In fact, they fire pretty god-damn fast. Looking at Clone Wars, we see that their ships have a full auto capability. As in, they can fire about three pulses per second. That's pretty fast. Let's assume 1 megaton per pulse, just for kicks. Better yet, we'll only use the 8 large batteries on the ISDs. Now, assuming they can fire at the same rate (and there's no reason they can't--it'd be stupid not to be able to), a single barrel can fire about 180 pulses a minute and 10,800 pulses an hour. Within the alloted time frame, that's 259,200 pulses. Now, assuming we only have one barrel on each each gun firing (no big deal really), that's 2,073,600 shots. Now let's multiply that by three ISDs and we get 6,220,800 shots from the ISDs. Now, in reality it's going to be two barrels at least, but that's okay since the shots will probably land in a reasonable same area. So thus far, just looking at the main guns of the ship and not the many others, we get 12,411,600 megatons poured into the planet. That's a total of about 12.4 teratons spread over the planet. It's not even including bombardment craft or the like that may have assisted

 

And chances are, the destruction, due to more guns, is going to do about six times as many shots as that. As in, over 40 million targets the ISDs can pin point and blast to hell with a single shot of their double barrel weapons. Look at this:.

Still not enough to wipe out all life in the space of a day. While a higher rate of fire and more guns lowers the individual yield per shot it does not lower the overall energy requirement, The asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs was 100 teratons all at once and it didn't wipe out all life on the planet since I'm sitting here typing

 

 

 

 

 

Pick your hometown and test out the 1.4 megaton nuke. Zoom out and look at how far the effects goes. Now imagine hundreds of thousands of them raining down upon the planet every five minutes. That's not even looking to other fighters and bombers that we know perform mop-up operations. For a quick and dirty DBZ, this would ensure that just about any planet you bombard will not have survivors with a properly planned bombardment.

Evidence? the dinosaur killer left survivors, Caamas didn't even have plants left

 

 

 

Of course, even if we were to grant you these gigatons, you seem to be forgetting about the orginal BDZ; General Order 24. An order that a single Starship such as the Enterprise can carry out with an armament of about 100 photon torpedoes and her phaser banks. By your logic, the Enterprise 1701 has the firepower of roughly three ISDs.

And just where does it say GO24 was the extermination of ALL LIFE on a planet?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that why we've seen routinly that Starfleet is more than willing to drop that concept at the drop of the hat in face of destruction? Think about it. Kirk was willing to destroy himself and his ship in many scenarios to keep the Federation or even his crew alive. Picard even wrote off Troi's complaint that they didn't have the right to use a Borg teen as a weapon against the Borg. Sisko infected an entire Maquis colony to show his former head of security that he meant business. And Janeway...well, Janeway was willing to vaporize a building with her in it.

 

 

 

Your argument is stupid. We have multiple cases showing that the UFP will sink to low levels to get out alive if they have to. The very existence of Section 31 confirms that.

 

Yet Cardassia only had 800 million dead, the breen attack on earth caused less damage than a 1,000 bomber raid in WWII

At long last, you agree that ST and SW have similar yields...

400TJ ie less than 100kilotons

And that assumes a straight conversion without inefficiency.

Can't say I was dewanking Trek. Considering they didnt have to accelerate the tricobalts to warp the energy required is probably even less still without accounting for inefficiencies

indeed. The borg invaded and conquered for no reason but to "add to their perfection" and bring the rest of the galaxy into order, not due to resources.

 

 

 

The empire is about expanding and controlling everything. Thus they would even invade another galaxy to do so. No where does it say resources.

Yet they didnt go invade the Yuuzahn Vong's galaxy or go invade the Chiss or Ssi-ruuk in their own galaxy

 

What mass destruction?

 

If the ships are in controlled flights in the atmosphere, how would that result in mass destruction?

The nuclear rockets ST ships use for propulsion.

 

To move Voyager's 700,000,000kg at 100m/s for 1 second not counting atmospheric drag(360km/h) requires 3.5TJ/s or almost 1KT/s then there's the utter lack of destruction from the impact

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean the same lack of mass destruction caused by the Invisible Hand's crash landing?

 

Because apart for some crushed landing strip, there doesn't seem to be any earth-shattering tremors or anything like it when it crashes.

 

Are you going to tell me SW ships also have mass lighetning now?

Moving much slower than voyager, unknown mass, possible use of repulsors or tractor beams, shields from the planet, since unlike voyager the invisible hand didnt crash in the middle of nowhere by itself. You'd think they have some sort of system to protect the capital of the republic from large falling objects

 

 

 

 

 

And the E-D's saucer crash had no Warp Core, no Nacelles, no Impulse engines to rely on, on thrusters, so no mass lightening.

And also not the entire ship either, the saucer was supposed to function as an escape vessel remember

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Their SIFs seem pretty strong from what we've seen, so they and the ship's structural strienght could be the only thing holding the ship together in an atmosphere...

Which I've never doubted, however that may not be so without SIF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These aren't crashes you're mentioning, but only ships that were fired upon and then blew up.

 

The Odissey isn't even a good example, because it was hit many times while unshielded (weapons went right through the shields, like in Gen), before it got rammed by the bug.

 

And even then, it did not immediately explode.

 

The bug rammed it, exploded upon impact, and then, the Odissey went boom...

Unstable hypermatter was the point I was originally arguing against, merely a demonstration of why antimatter is bad, not that ST ships always explode when crased

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are certainly not unheard off, but they are shitty at best, since an ISD with these huge frigging Sensor Domes/Shield Generators lost the MF once it got close to the tower...

And unlike TV no sensor in real life could do any better

 

The Tantive IV was firing at a ship a few km behind it, not really close,

still behind it

 

 

 

and the Rebel fleet, in case your memory of the movie is sketchy, detected the Imperial fleet once it borke off its attack on the DS, when they turned right towards the Imp fleet.

Fleet still turning, SW capships cant turn on a dime remember, you can still see fighters going by home ones viewport/screen when Ackbar say its a trap

 

They did not, at any time, detect them behind them...

They sure as hell weren't in front of them either, and Tantive IV unless you're trying to argue her gunners use the force

 

Although it could be (and I wouldn't argue this) that the reason they didn't detect them was because of the jamming coming from the DS...

Most likely. However the Tantive IV obviously was able to track and detect the Devastor, likewise rebel fighters were able to occassionally detect the TIEs behind them before they died in the trench run. I'm not saying they have flawless coverage, they are however able to detect hostile things behind them

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except these shields dropped down pretty quickly once the order was given, and even if it did take the whole fleet's firepower to destroy them, we're talking about an SSD for crying out loud.

 

Of course it will take a lot more to destroy their shields then on an ISD...

A SSD involved in combat for some length of time before having an entire fleet focus on it, and neither is quantifiable

 

 

 

The globes on an ISD are still a very visible target which allows one to take out Shields and Sensors, and will be destroyed a lot easier then an SSD's...

 

By an unknown amount of energy, By the same token I can say crashing enough TIE bombers into a GCS or Vor'cha will destroy it. Or the SB favorite, 1 at sufficient velocity

Fail

 

 

 

20*20,000=400,000GJ = 400TJ < 100KT

Why?

How many ships they got?