Picard578

And maybe he could use that time to work on his grammar and debating style.

Probably so that they can go around without trying to be completely in line with so-called "G" canon. Anything that contradicts movies =/= canon. As for EU, Lucas doesn't consider it to be canon, but there is enough "official" "statements" and "evidence" to pass it as canon.

I would still like to see Lucas' statement on that matter - I wasn't able to find anything on first link given at that forum, and I don't trust forums in that regard. Nor do I trust anyone who says something before Lucas says something. It might be pure merchandizing trick as well. "G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself." They will have to include TFU in that, if it is G-canon.

EU exists but isn't canon... barring some special rules on discussion boards. On THIS forum, EU is regarded as lower-tier canon by Word of Local God, meaning that any discussion about that is irrelevant. Besides, is there statement by Lucas himself that TFU is G-canon? Forums generally aren't reliable source.

Uhh... my head hurts. That post is just messed up. Section 31 is more effective than Imperial Intelligence, but it is NOT intelligence agency, it is black ops and counter-intelligence agency. As for Imperial intelligence, we know nothing of it (at least, from "G canon"), aside from the fact that it was unable to protect DSI's plans, but was able to discover who had taken them and where Leia's ship was heading for.

Reminds me of my discussion with SWST or Serafina.

Yes, I noticed that. Actually, I noticed that most people come into discussion with pre-determined result, and use discussion only to push their views. Doing that, they dismiss arguments of other side without even thinking if these arguments are, actuall, correct. And that is probably most unnerving thing in whole discussion - even more so than occasional swearing and similar.

Well, that depends on: a ) how strong Earth's shields are (doubtful, but probably in hundreds of gigatons) b ) how powerful superlaser is (I think that Darkstar calculated it, but lots of people don't agree on it)

@GhanjRho Star Wars galaxy is smaller than Star Trek one, althought still larger than Federation. @Jason But Rebel Alliance mostly stays on the run - or at least their HQ does, we know that they have abandoned base on Dantooine even before Empire found it - while Maquis are simply terrorist and freedom fighters (one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist) so they basically rely on not being seen and probably hide their equipment in various locations, but I never saw any indication of some grand mobility.

Starfleet Intelligence had its own misses too - biggest being capture of Betazed (fairly important member world) by Dominion.

Maybe beacouse they know they are unusually biased so they choose crossover nick to play it down... althought Jason doesn't fit that.

If KSW was here as long as Jason, what would his reputation be? -15 000 seems right...

Hell, I think that at least half of active users on SFJ have told him he's bullshitting.

Unlike "modern" world, in Star Trek ship's hull is not useless against weapons, and is integral part of defence, which means that there is some use of making it tougher, beacouse it will provide better protection - while today's naval ships would need insane amounts of armor to provide any protection at all against anti-ship missiles.

BTW, I noticed that someone said that Goldshirts have no body armor. That is wrong - we saw it in Siege of AR-558 (I hope I got number right) andone more episode.

And one note about Nemesis - I watched it and counted few dozen hits on E-E; it also seems that Scimitar succeded in breaching E-D's shields several times, and shields were brought back up at least once after being disabled.

You forgot that philosophy changed since WW2. WW2 ships are built to withstand hits. Modern ships are built not to get hit in first place, beacouse modern anti-ship missiles are strong enough to make any reasonable amount of armor worthless, and protection they do have in case they get hit is not so much focused on avoiding damage, as it is focused on limiting it on one specific area of ship. But in Star Trek, metallurgy is advanced enough to make hull (coupled with Structural Integrity Field) still a viable defence against shipboard weapons, althought still not terribly effective.

Newer ships were made to withstand new weapons, so they are certainly toughter.

In practice, squadron of Attack Fighters destroys Death Star as soon as they get to the vent.

Battlestar Wiki puts Galactica's warheads at 150 kilotons, max. Probably enough to destroy unshielded ISD, but against fully shielded ISD, and assuming each warhead hits (there seems to be 20 of tubes for Galactica; I'm not sure, thought) we would need 1000 warheads, or 50 battlestars, minimum, according to my ISD shield calculations. That is not counting fact that some nukes will get shot down by ISD's point defences, no matter how sloppy these could be.

Either way, Delta Flyer probably won't be able to destroy ISD unless it has full-fledged starship as support (which then comes down to "starship vs ISD").

Only way Delta Flyer could take out ISD is by packing it with capital-grade photon torpedoes and parking it on ISD's hull before detonating torpedoes. Now, destroying bridge will kill command crew, but Imperial starships are modeled after WW2 ships, which means that they probably have secondary command center, probably somewhere inside hull or lower superstructure (blocky part on which command tower is located), which means that ship will be able to continue operating more-or-less normally. /III - command bridge /--I_____ _________I______ - lower superstructure, upper level ________________I - lower superstructure, lower level

I have calculated ISD's shields at 100-200 megatons, and heavy turbolasers at 1.5 megatons. Full-sized photon torpedoes are anywhere between 200 megatons ("Rise") to 5 gigatons. Micro-torpedoes might be anywhere from 2 to 625 megatons, based on possible size difference. And I don't believe ISD is going to be able to hit Delta Flyer with anything other than light turbolasers, so it comes down to issue if TIE bombers can destroy Flyer. http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/photon_torpedoes.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/phasers.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields/deflector_shields.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/propulsion/impulse_drive.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/materials.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/starship_tactical_systems/turbolasers.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/starship_tactical_systems/proton_torpedoes.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/power_production/power.html http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/materials/star_wars_materials.html EDIT: I know that - I have been on SDN myself. But if he doesn't concede, I'll just keep dumping proof on him. I'm not afraid of repeating myself thousand times over, or arguing some particular issue for months. Then he might just become bored enough to actually provide new argument

Star Wars uses fusion. http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_wars/space/power_production/power.html

Ordinary photon torpedoes are simply too big for Flyer, unless it carries only one or two pairs of these. We know there are micro-photon torpedoes, and standard photorps are 2 meters long, and in one or two instances torpedo casing served as burial coffin. And we see in several instances that Star Wars shields, althought invisible, do stop physical impacts. In RotJ, fighter crashes into MonCal cruiser - no burn marks on ship, nothing. In RotS, Anakin has to down shield protecting hangar bays of Invisible Hand. In TESB, we see several asteroids exploding on ISD's hull - no damage, nothing. While Flyer might be able to beam torpedo throught shields, historically, beaming throught unknown shielding type was more of hit-or-miss affair, with no assurance of success. Then again, its Borg tech might help, althought I don't recall she was ever fitted with Borg transporter. And Federation doesn't have subspace transporter. I have lot of expirience from SDN, so I think I can handle it.