Vince

Could the ground beneath it support something that dense?

Assuming near C exhaust velocity is this the right way to work out propulsion power: acceleration x C x mass?

If so (assuming that is actual mass and comparable acceleration to Fed ships) we would end up with a 3 meter long borg scout with eerily similar power generation to the Enterprise's "billions of gigawatts" provided by Data.

Or, if we ran with those density figures for Federation vessels (as other have done before us) we would have to re-think everything we have concluded about power generation and firepower making the events of TDiC being the result of DET a feasible reality. But at least the Enterprise couldn't get done in by a 3 meter long scout ship!

That is quite absurd, but these are ships that can tank the bombardment of a thirty strong fleet firing megaton range torpedoes -energies enough to fragment multi-kilometer wide spheres of solid iron- and then go on to destroy said fleets. Point being these ships are orders of magnitude tougher than what they should be and maybe having armour between 100,000 and 1000,000 times denser than conventional materials is how they achieve this?

Given the power gen figures chucked around it seems likely that this figure may represent the ships dead-weight without any mass-reducing tech in play, less its core generates enough power to blow up planets by the second

For the record, I wouldn't waste my time with long SDN threads. This is a board where one man wrote a 108-page "rebuttal" to Red Letter Media's review of The Phantom Menace. It's really just full of people who love the sight of their own posts, and probably the sound of their own voice.

 

Yes, I wasn't kidding when I said that he wrote a 108-page rebuttal. Sad, ain't it?

Sad or insane. The review is kind of a spoof anyways haha, be like writing a serious horror movie review on scary movie.

I'm guessing it was a chance to show off all his behind the scenes super sw knowledge./

The battle of Coruscant was supposed to have gone on hours before shields were pounded down... cannot remember if we have top level canon on that though.

That photo looks so old-school to me, like a 80's pic lol. Nice though! jus so very 80s

Sometimes the shield effect is far out enough to allow fighters under and sometimes its right up on the hull. Both of these effects occur within the same trilogy/movie and is not consistent, so I don't think amnyone should try to be absolute in position or come up with some all encompassing hypothesis. This debate has shown there's evidence for multiple theories on how shields work however for the purposes of cross over debates I don't think its unreasonable to work under the assumption that fighters can pass through shields, based on qauntity of evidence, even though multiple points of view/hypothesis can be derived from the same franchise.

Using phasers and proto-torps, i can concede ships being used to similar effect to the SW fighters, but I don't see very much support for them being much more effective tbh(short of close proximity warp core ejects or what not). With the weakness in the shields, Isn't it sort of like a fight where one side has a one cap ship, and the other a fleet of fighter equivalents that can inflict surface damage, with cap ships a million less powerful delivering them?

Fighters can seriously harm ships, but rarely destroy them. It would be quite difficult to root out all sixty of the bunkered xx-9 'turbolaser stations' which themselves may individually wield firepower greater than enterprises reactor output. Or maybe they could use more extreme tactics, finding ways inside the SW ships and ejecting their warp cores?

Basically i have difficulty picturing a scene where this weakness could be a game changer in battle, does anybody have any scenario ideas where it could? Or is this something that is to wait for the actual ST v SW case study (i dont mind the wait).

I didn't mean to contend the weapons bombardment capabilties, only their nature. To recreate the shock-waves with anti-matter beams would have to like mass millions of tons(!) and most weapons we see including smaller disruptors are of the teleport matter away kind. So the most sraight foward explanation is that whatever the pulses are, they leave residue anti-protons behind in amounts that can be detected, like lightening.

Anyway kudos to John, the one man army in unfamiliar and hostile territory

I'd have to agree the case for a/m beam weapons isn't too strong. There are real life events such as lighting that produce antimatter in levels that can be detected, and disruptors don't act like det weapons but more NDF.

By page two i see the argument moved onto how much antimatter could be delivered because of complex storage or w/e. Well i suppose that depends on how many proton torps you could cramp into the shuttle

I'd also point out that the bombardment in Die is Cast is not only impossible with the highest stated reactor outputs but also with antimatter beams. Those beams would have to be super-massive to create the teratons/petatons level shock waves using anti-matter. So they simply have to be technobabble NDF weapons which leave residue anti-protons behind after use.

Misato Katsuragi freaks me out. Whats with that elongated wrist with the hand man? Just isn't right.

Thats actually a good comparison, because without this technocult, the abscission is left with absolutely NO knowledge on how anything works. But they might be left with some of the infrastructure to continue reproducing the technology at a lesser efficiency.

The Empire is certainly more ruthless, committing multiple planet-wide massacres and having slaver ships which decimate entire species in the outer rim iirc.

The thing is, we do see X-wings remain relative to the Death STar, despite it itself moving at many km/s, and the maneuverability of fighters at four digit accelerations should be far greater than a capital ships. A fighter should out delta V a larger ship? It is also negotiable that a ISD may require substantial time to power up vital systems, such as the engines, because we see that near crash between two in the film, and they fail to halt. So it might take minutes to power up the engines of a main capital ship, maybe as systems readjust to handle such power.

You make a good point regarding intergalactic logistics and the issues there.

The only time we see perhaps relativistic missiles [that i know of] impact a starships raised shields is in the EU, with the 3 ISD's and the Executor. This bodes kindly for very effective particle shields. In primary canon, even the arguably gigajoule range ballistic weapons penetrate the other ships armour, but only in regions where there is perhaps less than a foot of said armour.

Finaly landing inside a star is always worse than skimming the surface, because you have the stars mass crushing down on you. The Falcon would surely be crushed.

Something to consider is that fighter suicidal relativitc ramming attacks are unprecedented , presumably unfeasible. So starships might have significant protection against relativistic missiles retaining gigatons of KE. The Falcon flying around the gas giant should have had these sorts of KE. But maybe it is the slow blade which penetrates the shield and causes significant damage to unprotected hulls.

It is not suprising explosives can do this from the inside. Especially if the hull is super enhanced by internal technologies. And if the super-compression technologies are compromised , the fuels may become orders of magnitude less dense, which might have some kind of effect. The fact some debris destroy a frigate is interest, i didn't notice that.

Sounds mental. I can see this getting boring after about one day !

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!......

Or five minutes.

I don't remember that

Who is he?

The fuel out masses the ship by order(s) of magnitude. Lets say a 100 fold. The VSTAR is actually more like 400 million, not 500. That makes the ship 4 million tons and the fuel the rest ~. Volume ~15,838,619. Density in this example, 1/4 metric ton per cubic meter.

Some of those debris were cubic meters. I'm not very good with speeds. At one hundred meters per second each represents 1.25 MJ bouncing harmlessly of the hull. At 1km/s each would represent 125 megajoules to the same effect. Not that impressive. Though the windows took some knocks.

Is it not possible there were permacrete structures in the bridge, explaining why ships are said to have durasteel hulls or titanium everywhere else? Like pillars or something.

Eh mister hardman!

I have this book somewhere. Thats the fight in the bridge right?

For tactical range assuming deflector (possible jamming) protected ships, this is pretty hard to dispute. High canon.

A Venator is around 480 million tons.

Don't look like a conventional explosion. With the white flash and sort of implosion. I like the way those armoured hulls withstood the pieces of shrapnel though that was cool!