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http://www.scifights.net/hyperspace.m4v

 

This is a new case study on Hyperspace navigation. This is my first attempt with Final Cut Pro. It is therefore in a different format, m4v. I need feedback on not only the content, but playability on different systems, picture quality, and download time.

I plan to make it public around midweek.

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Clear as the source material, good sound quality. Plays perfectly fine in Chrome with no odd ball plug ins installed. Feedback on the content as soon as I have a chance to watch more than a few minutes. Buffering for initial playback was just a few seconds on mid grade Comcast cable internet.

 

Content:

 

How do you explain the irregularities of the Battle of Yavin and the implications for precision hyperspace jumping? Did the Death Star come out in such a poor position because it was relying on iffy navigational data because it was supposed to be an uninhabited system and thus not as well scouted? Something to do with a ship of such tremendous mass not being able to jump out with the same precision as a starship? We are dealing with something millions of times more massive than a star destroyer so perhaps the limitations on how close it can arrive at a planet is millions of times greater? Did a nav tech goof and it takes too long for something the size of the Death Star to plot a course to open space that it was just as fast to go around Yavin?

 

Also, why are we to assume the space between two inhabited galaxies is empty? I realize we're given no hint that Obi Wan stopped therefore Occam's razor dictates he didn't, but if the range of hyperdrive is not intergalactic, then there'd be need for refueling stations between galaxies. Although the Falcon traveled significant distances in A New Hope without fuel ever being mentioned and the other crewmen aboard the Star Destroyer in Empire Strikes Back didn't seem to see a problem with one crewmen's statement that the Falcon could be on the other side of the galaxy by now.

 

My take on the hyperspace lane comment from the Clone Wars:

 

Picture a chess board with two walls of pawns staring at each other across a divided board. It seems that no matter where you move, you're in danger of either leaving yourself vulnerable or running up against protected squares. You can capture these pawns but another will surely capture your piece after you make your move. So to break through, both players would have to take heavy losses. Suddenly one player spots a straight line opening through which his queen can go right at the king.

 

The galactic situation is probably similar. With no direct path to the most important systems of the Republic, the Separatists would have to go through defended systems as the only single jump course from behind Separatist lines to behind Republic lines goes through Hutt territory. The Republic would be alerted to any offensive via long range sensors and scramble their defenses in force at the likely target.

Edited by scvn2812

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The moon with the Rebel base was on the far side of the planet Yavin. They can't jump through it.

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Oh, the galaxies. Until there is reason to assume the intergalactic space is occupied, it is empty by default. If there are fuel stations in the intergalactic space, I think that would decide the argument conclusively. The intergalactic space could not have been "mapped" without using hyperdrive to do so. It could not have been done little by little with each planet exploring its surroundings.

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The moon with the Rebel base was on the far side of the planet Yavin. They can't jump through it.

 

You're thinking two dimensionally, arriving above the plane of the Yavin system would allow the Death Star to fire directly on the moon, no planet in the way. So why not do that unless for some reason they couldn't? When it takes less than a minute for ships to hit high orbit, coming out of hyperspace on a vector where you will have to spend fifteen minutes orbiting the planet to clear your firing arc is inexplicable as a deliberate choice.

 

The only thing I can figure is that exits from hyperspace behind obstructions like the asteroids in Hoth or the planet Yavin can reduce the chance of detection if there are no early warning sentries. However, in the case of Yavin it seems tactically unsound.

 

So what prevented the Death Star from coming out with a clear shot?

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Also its a common misconception that intergalactic space is empty. It is not, there are rogue planets and stars, just spread out at less than 1% of the density of a Galaxy.

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There's a lot more than that. A galaxy isn't just stars and planets. It's also moons, asteroids, comets, dwarf planets, rogue planets, white dwarfs, brown dwarfs, neutron stars, black holes, nebulae, cosmic strings, interstellar dust and gas, dark matter, and who knows what else, spread across (in the case of the Milky Way) 31.4 trillion cubic light-years.

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I don't know why they didn't overshoot a bit and just fire. We saw two Separatist ships do the Picard Maneuver, coming out almost on top of a moving ship. Maybe the homing beacon was only accurate enough to get them to the Jovian planet? It got them inside the system and to the right planet at least.

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There may be a few things in the intergalactic void, but it nevertheless disproves the whole hyperspace lane thing. It could be poorly argued the galaxy was explored over millions of years using sublight drive and thousands of planets mapping their own surroundings, and the results ultimately compiled. But there is no way to do that in the intergalactic void. Nor to reach another galaxy and map it.

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I added a few seconds of commentary. It is like saying the Romans couldn't get anywhere without those roads. But then who built the roads? Similarly, who mapped out these hyperspace lanes? Obviously they mapped the galaxy using hyperdrive themselves, and PRODUCED these hyperspace lanes themselves, just like the Romans built the roads. The guy who invented the hyperdrive didn't say "gosh, now we can use these hyperspace lanes that have been waiting for us all these years!"

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Much was made of Malevolent having restrictions on the routes it had available to it because of its size. The shortest route to the place it wanted to be from where it started was ten parsecs iirc. The Death Star is so much larger than any other ship in existence that they are rounding errors next to it so that may complicate it's ability to maneuver in hyperspace, especially within the confines of a jovian system.

 

The Rebel fighters may likewise not be able to calculate a jump faster than they can leg it in real space or there is a risk involved. I'm guessing that while Picard maneuvers are possible, they are probably very risky and difficult. Tiny errors in the calculations could mean over shooting small targets or ramming moon sized stations.

 

Maneuvering in a system may call for dropping out and recalculating for greater precision since the sensor picture would be more detailed as well. This might be called for when you don't know the lay of the land as far as unnatural obstacles go like mine fields, enemy warships laying in ambush...

Edited by scvn2812

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Looks great to me Brian thanks.

 

One question though. How important are these hyperspace lanes? And what really makes them so important?

 

Here is why I ask:

Mandalorian blockade chokes war supplies and food supplies to and from the capital planet.

 

This blockade of the "main hyperlane" was causing starvation on the core worlds

 

This loss of control of the main hyperlane convinced many in the senate to surrender to the sith

 

The solution? Not chart out a new one. No rather they had to break the blockade

 

Restoration of hyperlane caused the starvation to end

 

 

So here is the thing. I just can't wrap my head around the importance and necessity of these hyperlanes. Can a fleet loaded with supplies make it to the capital world without a hyperlane? I would think yes. It would just take longer and have more risks. The video seems to indicate that no they can't. If they could then wouldn't they even at great risk? Riots, starvation, talk of surrender and yet still they didn't... or maybe they can't?

 

What do you think?

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There may be a few things in the intergalactic void, but it nevertheless disproves the whole hyperspace lane thing. It could be poorly argued the galaxy was explored over millions of years using sublight drive and thousands of planets mapping their own surroundings, and the results ultimately compiled. But there is no way to do that in the intergalactic void. Nor to reach another galaxy and map it.

 

Well, I wouldn't say "disprove", as there may be a hyperlane leading to the Rishii Maze. Also, currently IRL, there is some project going on to track planets in the Andromeda galaxy. Given that the Rishii Maze is a lot closer to the GFFA than Andromeda is to us, I'd say that they might be able to track planets there.

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Perhaps the hyperlanes are dependency creating due to the volume of traffic and organization. All of their peacetime infrastructure and logistics may be centered around taking advantage of these hyperlanes and it may be no small feat to reorganize the supply chain for the core worlds. There may be delays, alternative sources might have to be found to compensate for systems that are cut off etc. Although the galaxy is on a war footing now, it may not be easy to endure supply chain disruptions. A container ship full of iPads sinks in the Pacific ocean and all of the sudden there's no iPads to be found for sale anywhere. The real world is horrifyingly dependent on "just in time" deliveries. There's literally almost no slack in inventory anymore. Anything unanticipated can cause massive shortages. Flooding in Thailand can cause the supply of a certain brand of PC to dry up. The Japanese tsunami caused massive disruptions in the electronics sector due to many critical components still being manufactured in Japan even though the assembly for the final gadget is done elsewhere.

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Khas, see, that's the thing. If WE can map another galaxy visually, and the argument is that these ships cannot navigate unfamiliar territory due to not having maps, the argument is therefore self-defeating.

John, yes I know the lanes show up all the time in the Clone Wars. Like I said in the video, and like S points out above, it is probably due to the volume of traffic. Even starfighters and civilian ships can jump through Hyperspace. Seemingly, the only ships in the galaxy that cannot are TIE fighters. Even with the vastness of space, with that much traffic, there would be accidents if traffic was not controlled. Just like the highway system here. I usually drive my truck on the road, but I can cut through a field if I had to.

But there are examples in the films that dictate you can go cross country and/or navigate unfamiliar territory. And to develop these hyperspace lanes, it is simply required that they explored the galaxy using hyperdrive.

So the video is not meant to devalue the interstate...I mean hyperspace lane system, but to point out the brain bug that says these guys would be stranded and helpless in unfamiliar territory.

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They'd still need maps of hyperlanes. And the planet-tracking in other galaxies isn't that great, and is resource-consuming as hell.

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Well, with current tech extragalactic planet tracking is a highly resource-consuming affair.

 

And I wouldn't say unlimited, as they needed the Geonosians to serve as contractors to help build the Death Stars (as per Lucas' statement with AoTC), due to not having the manpower to do it themselves.

 

Yes, Lucas confirmed Randal's theory from "Clerks".

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For a civilization with 25 millennia of FTL wielding same day intergalactic communications and travel, would have a far easier time than us.

They were involved with the second too? I didn't know that. Or only the first? Geonosis is one planet, they designed the Death Star. Thats what they do, design weapons of war. That always made sense to me. An Empire of several tens of millions of planets, with billions of mining worlds, needing the assistance of this single world and its Industry to build a moon sized star-ship is astonishing.

 

I hadn't seen the clip of George saying that.

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I don't see the contention. Of-course the imperial army or the stormtrooper corps didn't build the Death STar. Engineers did. If anything this is scary. This wasn't the combined might of the entire empire, or even a large percentage of its contractors, or even one of its largest contractors (like Kuat). Just one contract from one planet. There are millions of planets.

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Khas, Geonosis is part of the Empire. Your argument would only make sense if they hired extra-galactic builders, outside the 3 galaxy local group.

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Perhaps I should've been clearer. It was the Imperial Military that lacked the resources to pull that off, since they had to hire the Geonosians. Most people just assume that a sci-fi power's military and the power are one and the same in debates.

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The Geonosians or any other contractors are part of the Empire, their resources and capabilities are at the disposal of the Empire should it choose to call upon them. We talk about America out producing every other country in World War 2, we don't only count the army corps of engineers, we take into consideration the many contractors who whose civilian controlled assets were pressed into service for the war.

 

I don't understand the significance of whether it's the Imperial military directly building the Death Star or civilian contractors as either way, they built two of them in two decades.

 

Actually, maybe I do see where you're going with this. I suppose it could be argued that if it was exclusively a military engineering project with only military resources used, you could then make the leap that the civilian economy and by extension the industrial might that the Empire could nationalize if it faced an existential threat would be proportionately greater. If two Death Stars in two decades is beyond the military's means, then the Death Stars represent a significantly greater portion of the Empire's industrial capacity than if the civilian sector of the economy wasn't mobilized.

 

To put it in arbitrary numbers, if the Imperial military budget for the engineering corps is 2% of the galactic gdp then how big of a number that is varies by a hundred million star destroyer masses if the corps can or can't build the Death Stars with their own resources.

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